SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : mother, child and womb?

Print Thread (PDF)


Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 mother, child and womb?

Check this out. I still cant believe this

What are these people thinking?

Presbyterians 'Receive' Policy on Worship
Jun 19 3:42 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

AP Religion Writer


The divine Trinity _ "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" _ could also be known as "Mother, Child and Womb" or "Rock, Redeemer, Friend" at some Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) services under an action Monday by the church's national assembly.

Delegates to the meeting voted to "receive" a policy paper on gender- inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. That means church officials can propose experimental liturgies with alternative phrasings for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.

"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chair Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during Monday's debate on the Trinity.

The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to refer the paper back for further study.

A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity should still be used, but added that Presbyterians also should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."

One reason is that language limited to the Father and Son "has been used to support the idea that God is male and that men are superior to women," the panel said.

Conservatives responded that the church should stick close to the way God is named in the Bible and noted that Jesus' most famous prayer was addressed to "Our Father."

Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," proposed Trinity options drawn from biblical material include:

_ "Lover, Beloved, Love"

_ "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"

_ "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love."

Early in Monday's business session, the Presbyterian assembly sang a revised version of a familiar doxology, "Praise God from whom all blessings flow" that avoided male nouns and pronouns for God.

Youth delegate Dorothy Hill, a student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, was uncomfortable with changing the Trinity wording. She said the paper "suggests viewpoints that seem to be in tension with what our church has always held to be true about our Trinitarian God."

Hill reminded delegates that the Ten Commandments say "the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

The Rev. Deborah Funke of Montana warned that the paper would be "theologically confusing and divisive" at a time when the denomination of 2.3 million members faces other troublesome issues.

On Tuesday, the assembly will vote on a proposal to give local congregations and regional "presbyteries" some leeway on ordaining clergy and lay officers living in gay relationships.

Ten conservative Presbyterian groups have warned jointly that approval of what they call "local option" would "promote schism by permitting the disregard of clear standards of Scripture."

Matt Kroelinger

 2006/6/20 9:18Profile

Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524

 Re: mother, child and womb?

Not surprised at all, things will just get worse!

 2006/6/20 9:56Profile

Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772

 Re: mother, child and womb?

Doesn't surprise me in the least, just the latest apostasy....


 2006/6/20 11:18Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470


One can no longer assume that the church building you see by the road is one where orthodoxy is taught. It might be more correct to assume it is not.

Several years ago I talked to lady named Beth whose husband was in the Air Force and who have to move arond a lot. Since he is a Methodist, they will check oout Methodist churches in the community they have located to, so they checked out the largest Methodist church in the city of ....... and attended there for a month. At the end of it, they noticed one thing: they did not use the word 'Jesus'. The words God, Lord were used but not Jesus. Beth also described how many are offended when confronted about this. Why the hassle? why the concern? and this comes from ladies who are doing 'Bible study' using contemporary lit and not the Bible itself.


Sandra Miller

 2006/6/21 11:13Profile

Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524



I'm so glad you brought this up.

Perhaps, just perhaps that their 'god' is not our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

I also noticed that the LORD's titles ( I heard HE's been called j-boy )have been dragged down to human level, or may be below human level, even in some seminaries or 'christian' colleges.

The flippant and demeaning usages of HIS Name is getting worse it seems.


 2006/6/21 11:49Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy