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enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2662
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Once again we see a false teaching attacking the word of God. If you need experiences, voices etc, then you are left questioning if that voice or experience is from God, for satan transforms himself into an angel of light. Anyone who can say the Bible is not the word of God is self deceived. This is totally changing the original question concerning hell and the heathen. What I can't understand is if blake doesn't believe that the Bible is the word of God, then why does he quote scripture? Isn't that a contradiction?
Isaiah 8v20 says 'To the law and to the testimony if they say not according to THIS WORD, it is because there is no light in them'
Blake is using the Bible to try to prove that the Bible is not the word of God. Does anyone else understand this oxymoron?

 2006/6/21 3:11Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

beenblake,

I think I know what you are trying to say...however I don't agree with the way you are saying it.

You are trying to make the point that the Bible is great but it is not Christ. You are saying this as a reaction to people who seem to place more emphasis in reading the Bible than consulting God through prayer.

I can follow your line of thinking to a point...

We must remember that God created the Bible for a reason and that reason is to provide us with the written words of God. The Holy Spirit leads us in all truth and the Holy Spirit also points me plenty of times to scripture.

I don't see the Holy Spirit and the Bible ever competing against one another. What I mean by that is the Holy Spirit will never say anything that will contradict God's written word. If there is a contradiction then I need to examine which is in error...usually from reading the Bible I find that I have strayed from listening to the Holy Spirit and have listened to that 'angel of light masquerading...'

 2006/6/21 9:11Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Brother... the whole

Quote:
Who is your God, the scriptures or Christ? Who do you serve, the scriptures which contain the law, or Christ who set us free from the law?



Yes!

That may sound strange brother but I hope to unravel this here, I pray so. The scriptures contain the 'law' as you have stated, but far much more than that. Blake, I plead with you to bear with me...

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

[b]Luk 24:32 -
Our heart burn within us[/b] - This is an expression denoting the deep interest and pleasure which they had felt in his discourse before they knew who he was. They now recalled his instruction; they remembered how his words reached the “heart” as he spoke to them; how convincingly he had showed them that the Messiah ought to suffer, and how, while he talked to them of the Christ that they so much loved, their hearts glowed with intense love. This feeling was not confined to them alone. All the followers of Jesus know how precious and tender are the communications of the Saviour, and how the heart glows with love as they think or hear of his life, and sufferings, and death.

[b]He opened to us[/b] - He explained to us the Scriptures. See Luk_24:27.
This narrative shows us,

1. How blind people may be to the plainest doctrines of the Scriptures until they are explained to them. These disciples had often read or heard the Scriptures, but never, until then, did they fully understand that the Messiah must suffer.

2. It is proper there should be those whose office it is to explain the Scriptures. Jesus did it while on earth; he does it now by his Spirit; and he has appointed his ministers, whose business it is to explain them.

3. If people attempt to explain the Bible, they should themselves understand it. They should give their time and talents to a suitable preparation to understand the sacred volume. Preaching should consist in “real,” and not “fancied” explanations of the Scriptures; the real doctrines which “God” has taught in his word, and not the doctrines that “men” have taught in their systems.

4. Here was convincing evidence that Jesus was the Messiah. This was but one of many instances where Jesus convinced his disciples, contrary to their previous belief. In this case the evidence was abundant. He first satisfied them from the Old Testament that the very things which had happened were foretold; he then dissipated every doubt by showing “himself” to them and convincing them that he was truly the Christ. There was no chance here for deception and juggling. Who would have met them and talked with them in this way but the real Saviour? Who would have thought of writing this narrative to help an imposture? What impostor would have recorded the dulness of the disciples as to the plain declarations of the Old Testament, and “then” have thought of this device to prop up the narrative? Everything about this narrative - its simplicity - its tenderness - its particularity - its perfect nature - its freedom from all appearance of trick - shows that it was taken from real life; and if so, then the Christian religion is true, for here is evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 15:20 [u]Remember the word that I said unto you[/u], The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Brother, these are not just random verses as proof text. Is not all of communication ultimately rooted in what is meant? What we discuss here amongst ourselves, a sequence of letters stringed together to form words to communicate thought. [i]Meaning[/i]. Brother, you are as far away as you are close, if you were not to attempt to divide that which is in-divisible. It is both\and, one and the same.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Blake, look how well everything is codified in the "both" of the matter;

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the [u]whole[/u] armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the [u]word[/u] of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

And again...

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Is this not so? The same Word of truth, brought to remembrance by the Holy Spirit because it is hidden in the heart and brought to the mind.

Heart to heart communication that is not contradictory, we are the contradicted, the divided, the fallen, the fallible. If I had the ability, I wouldn't trust myself to throw myself across the street. I realize that [i]I don't know[/i] and must rely on Him who does know. Trust my own thoughts? The notions that crop up in my head? All inspired, unction prompted by the Holy Spirit? My goodness no... A perusing of just the last week or so around here is and was a great lesson of resting on my laurels, of lack of prayer, of that frontal lobe management. A great deal of embarrassment and humility (A good thing!), a recognition of underlying pride, of faulty expression.

Blake, how I could but wish to get to the very bottom of all this once and for all and be done with it. There is something about a mindset among us that often cut's across every discussion and it is this partisan spirit, this either\or thinking, this leaning hard on one area and neglecting another. We can build up whole constructs and\or doctrines on a select verse or even a handful. Whole denominations have been constructed this way and then everything is held up to the ideal, instead of the ideal being held up to the whole.

What you are doing again as in the recent past is no different. We are so proud and so slow to hear and to listen, to take the whole counsel of the Lord. We would prefer to wield the scriptures, Gods thought, the Lords intent, that which if we recall ...

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

... rather than to submit to it, to come under it, to humble ourselves before all that the Lord has spoken, is speaking and still constantly communicates to us without contradiction, through His word, in His word by His word, by prayer, by the Holy Spirit ... [u]who[/u]...

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and [u]in you all[/u].

Blake I do very much grasp the emphasis of the heart that you are trying to convey due to the wreckage and incredible mis-management of the scriptures themselves. The very thought communicated to the heart is lost on so many. The combustion just lying below the surface, ready to explode at the slightest challenge ... I just do not understand it completely. The scriptures as a solitary scholastic study. As a weapon to bludgeon the foes with or each other by mere mortals. As some sort of reference manual to jostle over a jot or a title as if it were sport .... Surely it is expressed in Ephesians as a sword and in Hebrews as a double edged sword, meaning it cut's both ways;

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Jam 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely.
Jam 3:2 For all of us make many mistakes. If someone does not make any mistakes when he speaks, he is perfect and able to control his whole body.

I am somewhat grieved seeing the amount of hostility expressed between brothers of late. Time and again I must wonder at ... "Are we reading the same Book"? Or to dissuade a misunderstanding, "Has the Book read us"? Has the thought of God penetrated far enough into our very marrow that we do not see, feel and recognize just how far off we are or can be?

Blake, it is a whole. One of the best and accurate lines of thought I have ever heard that still resonates when it comes to scripture was stated by our own Philologos who has much more traction and longevity than the two of us combined; That we lift up a section or verses to examine them, but to be sure to put them back into their context when we are through with them. It is no different in the attributes and matters of the heart, of prayer, of contemplation, the Lords thought is unified and communicated without error as a whole. Where it is off is where we must struggle and relinquish, humble ourselves and change both our minds and our hearts.

There is a great deal of agitation and hostility towards one another, so much so that we are ready to lunge at each other with unkind words and thoughts, malice and ill will. The Lord is left out of the entire picture while we yet talk of Him. Amazing!

Blake, I will come along side you here and draw up the one aspect for inspection before dropping it back down into the pool of marrow ... It is obvious that we are not praying as we ought, more concerned about what we [i]think[/i] the Lord is saying rather than saying what the Lord is thinking and wishing to communicate to our hearts and to each other.

That we might apply this broadly, to the whole man, to what is evidently lacking;

Jam 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jam 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jam 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jam 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?





_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/21 9:54Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Enid and Mike,

Quote:
if blake doesn't believe that the Bible is the word of God, then why does he quote scripture? Isn't that a contradiction?



The bible is not the word of God. Jesus Christ is the word of God. The bible is a testimony of men to the word of God who is Jesus. The bible bears a testimony inpsired by God of Jesus.

How many times must I explain this before you will listen???

It is you who wish to turn the bible into God saying making it equal with Christ. When will you listen? The bible is not equal with Christ, it is a testimony of Christ.

The bible is a great and wonderful book. Indeed, it is filled with truth, and of all things on the earth that does not have a spirit, this book is the closest we have to truth. The bible is good and profitable for doctrine and instruction. Indeed, the bible was given to us by God through prophets over many generations. Yes, the bible is a useful and good book. The bible, however, is NOT Jesus Christ. The bible is NOT the WORD OF GOD.

Jesus Christ lives inside people. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of people. The bible is a book with words inside of it. The Word of God is living and active. The bible is an inanimate object. Human beings are living. Don't you see!!! You are denying Christ inside of you.

The true oxymoron comes when people say, "I am a Christian" and then say "The bible is the Word of God." Who is your God? Is Jesus your God, or the bible? Do you not see this? Do you not know that the Word of God is God? Have you not read scripture that testifies to this? Read the bible. In John 1:1, is says, "the Word was God."

Throughout the bible, it says that scripture is a testimony. The apostle Luke recognized this when he said:

Luke 1:2(KJ)
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

Luke was an "eyewitness" to the word. When he wrote the book of Luke, he was writing his testimony. He was not writing the exact words of God. He was writing his testimony to Jesus, who is the word. Likewise, there have been many ministers of the word who recorded what they heard and saw. The result is a testimony to the word. However, the bible is not the Word itself. All scripture is a testimony.

This is a huge difference. Especially when you read scripture. Every place in the bible where it talks about the Word of God, it is really talking about Jesus. However, our society has substituted it with the bible. We have replaced Christ with the bible. It is sad and disgusting. The Church is worshipping the bible above Christ. She is committing adultery and is in complete denial. She refuses to see this.

Go through the bible. Where ever it says, "the word", it is really talking about Jesus. Replace "the word" with "Jesus." Then you will see the truth. Stop worshipping the bible. Jesus is God.

Quote:
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.



Do you not see? This is speaking of Jesus. Faith comes by hearing Jesus. However, people have replaced the Word of God who is Jesus with the bible. The Church has falled away from her first love. She has given herself over to the Master's servant. Rather than love her King, she commits adultery with His servants. The bible was given to us by God, but the bible is merely a servant to Christ. The bible is less than Christ.


Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Do you not see? Their hearts burned because Christ was speaking to them. It was not because of scripture. It was because of Christ.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Yes, yes, Jesus Christ is the Word of God. He speaks the very words of God. Those that hear His word that comes through the Holy Spirit. It was not the bible that convicted me on the day of my salvation. It was the Holy Spirit. I heard His voice speaking to me, calling me unto repetance. This came through Christ speaking through others.

The Word of God can come through the bible. The bible is a vessel which God can use. The bible is God's servant. However, this does not make the bible into God. There is a difference. God may also use you Mike, to speak His word. A person may repent and be saved from a sermon you give. Their heart may burn within them as you tell them the gospel. But this burning came from Christ, not from you. When the Holy Spirit fills you, and Jesus puts words into your mouth, does that make you God? Does that make you the Word of God?

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Was the bible written by Jesus? It was written by men who were recording a testimony of what they heard and saw. The gospels quote Jesus. Indeed, these quotes tell us what Christ said. However, they are not the original words. They have filtered through another person. When Jesus spoke, He spoke God's words as it says in John 2:34. When John recorded Jesus, he was not speaking Jesus's words. He was repeating them. There is a difference. Jesus is God, and His words are God's words. John is a servant of Christ. John's words are still John's words. They are his testimony.

In regard to the above scripture....When Jesus comes to dwell in a believer, he also fulfills the law within them. That person obeys God's commandments and Jesus's sayings as a result of being transformed. Christ works inside a person to make them righteous. This comes about through love. A person loves Christ by giving their own life to Him. That is love. We give our lives over to another. Christ did this on the cross, and we do it in baptism. When this happens, when we give our love to Christ, we abandon ourselves to Him. When this happens, Christ controls us, and we obey His commandments naturally. It is not something we strive for or do, it is fruit, something that results by being transformed. Thus, we keep the sayings of Jesus by being completely abandoned to Christ. We don't need to read them in the bible. We know them by heart because Christ is living in us.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus was stating a fact, not a command in the above scripture. He was saying as a matter of truth, "if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." If Jesus is truly living inside of us and working in us, we will naturally live in accord with the law and scripture. It will not be forced. It will be known by Christ in us.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Yes, yes, Jesus is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit.... Who convicts a person? It is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ.

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Jesus said He was the bread of Heaven. Have you tasted the word of God? Have you eaten of this bread.

The whole bible is like this. And yet, the Church has failed to see the truth. They fail to see Christ is the Lord. He is the Word of God. He is supreme. He is King. He is greater than the bible, and is the one working in all believers.

When we make the bible into the Word, we are falling again into our old ways of the law. Following the bible requires we obey it. This means we do so by our own power. However, following Christ requires we give ourselves to Him in love. This means we give ourselves to Jesus, so that He may enter in and control us. This is so different. Can't you see the danger in calling the bible the Word of God? It is dangerous for unbelievers who think they can be saved by the bible. It is dangerous for those who base an entire faith or religion on the bible. And it is dangerous for believers, who deny Christ in them, and substitute Him for an idol they can see and touch and use to remain in control. When will the Church see her sin and turn back to her first love?

The servant is not greater than the master. The bible is not the Word of God. The bible is a testimony that testifies to the Word of God who is Jesus Christ.

The bible is a vessel by which the Word of God can come. Jesus can use the bible to speak to us. However, that doesn't make it Jesus. It is just a vessel. Without Christ, the bible is just a book.

Let us all hold fast to our first love. Let us not follow the bible, but follow Christ who lives inside of us. Has anyone who truly submitted themselves unto Christ, ever been lead astray by Him?

In Christ,

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/6/21 10:51Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Enid and Mike,

Quote:
if blake doesn't believe that the Bible is the word of God, then why does he quote scripture? Isn't that a contradiction?



The bible is not the word of God. Jesus Christ is the word of God. The bible is a testimony of men to the word of God who is Jesus. The bible bears a testimony inpsired by God of Jesus.

How many times must I explain this before you will listen???

It is you who wish to turn the bible into God saying making it equal with Christ. When will you listen? The bible is not equal with Christ, it is a testimony of Christ.

The bible is a great and wonderful book. Indeed, it is filled with truth, and of all things on the earth that does not have a spirit, this book is the closest we have to truth. The bible is good and profitable for doctrine and instruction. Indeed, the bible was given to us by God through prophets over many generations. Yes, the bible is a useful and good book. The bible, however, is NOT Jesus Christ. The bible is NOT the WORD OF GOD.

Jesus Christ lives inside people. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of people. The bible is a book with words inside of it. The Word of God is living and active. The bible is an inanimate object. Human beings are living. Don't you see!!! You are denying Christ inside of you.

The true oxymoron comes when people say, "I am a Christian" and then say "The bible is the Word of God." Who is your God? Is Jesus your God, or the bible? Do you not see this? Do you not know that the Word of God is God? Have you not read scripture that testifies to this? Read the bible. In John 1:1, is says, "the Word was God."

Throughout the bible, it says that scripture is a testimony. The apostle Luke recognized this when he said:

Luke 1:2(KJ)
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

Luke was an "eyewitness" to the word. When he wrote the book of Luke, he was writing his testimony. He was not writing the exact words of God. He was writing his testimony to Jesus, who is the word. Likewise, there have been many ministers of the word who recorded what they heard and saw. The result is a testimony to the word. However, the bible is not the Word itself. All scripture is a testimony.

This is a huge difference. Especially when you read scripture. Every place in the bible where it talks about the Word of God, it is really talking about Jesus. However, our society has substituted it with the bible. We have replaced Christ with the bible. It is sad and disgusting. The Church is worshipping the bible above Christ. She is committing adultery and is in complete denial. She refuses to see this.

Go through the bible. Where ever it says, "the word", it is really talking about Jesus. Replace "the word" with "Jesus." Then you will see the truth. Stop worshipping the bible. Jesus is God.

Quote:
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.



Do you not see? This is speaking of Jesus. Faith comes by hearing Jesus. However, people have replaced the Word of God who is Jesus with the bible. The Church has falled away from her first love. She has given herself over to the Master's servant. Rather than love her King, she commits adultery with His servants. The bible was given to us by God, but the bible is merely a servant to Christ. The bible is less than Christ.


Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Do you not see? Their hearts burned because Christ was speaking to them. It was not because of scripture. It was because of Christ.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Yes, yes, Jesus Christ is the Word of God. He speaks the very words of God. Those that hear His word that comes through the Holy Spirit. It was not the bible that convicted me on the day of my salvation. It was the Holy Spirit. I heard His voice speaking to me, calling me unto repetance. This came through Christ speaking through others.

The Word of God can come through the bible. The bible is a vessel which God can use. The bible is God's servant. However, this does not make the bible into God. There is a difference. God may also use you Mike, to speak His word. A person may repent and be saved from a sermon you give. Their heart may burn within them as you tell them the gospel. But this burning came from Christ, not from you. When the Holy Spirit fills you, and Jesus puts words into your mouth, does that make you God? Does that make you the Word of God?

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Was the bible written by Jesus? It was written by men who were recording a testimony of what they heard and saw. The gospels quote Jesus. Indeed, these quotes tell us what Christ said. However, they are not the original words. They have filtered through another person. When Jesus spoke, He spoke God's words as it says in John 2:34. When John recorded Jesus, he was not speaking Jesus's words. He was repeating them. There is a difference. Jesus is God, and His words are God's words. John is a servant of Christ. John's words are still John's words. They are his testimony.

In regard to the above scripture....When Jesus comes to dwell in a believer, he also fulfills the law within them. That person obeys God's commandments and Jesus's sayings as a result of being transformed. Christ works inside a person to make them righteous. This comes about through love. A person loves Christ by giving their own life to Him. That is love. We give our lives over to another. Christ did this on the cross, and we do it in baptism. When this happens, when we give our love to Christ, we abandon ourselves to Him. When this happens, Christ controls us, and we obey His commandments naturally. It is not something we strive for or do, it is fruit, something that results by being transformed. Thus, we keep the sayings of Jesus by being completely abandoned to Christ. We don't need to read them in the bible. We know them by heart because Christ is living in us.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus was stating a fact, not a command in the above scripture. He was saying as a matter of truth, "if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." If Jesus is truly living inside of us and working in us, we will naturally live in accord with the law and scripture. It will not be forced. It will be known by Christ in us.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Yes, yes, Jesus is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit.... Who convicts a person? It is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ.

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Jesus said He was the bread of Heaven. Have you tasted the word of God? Have you eaten of this bread.

The whole bible is like this. And yet, the Church has failed to see the truth. They fail to see Christ is the Lord. He is the Word of God. He is supreme. He is King. He is greater than the bible, and is the one working in all believers.

When we make the bible into the Word, we are falling again into our old ways of the law. Following the bible requires we obey it. This means we do so by our own power. However, following Christ requires we give ourselves to Him in love. This means we give ourselves to Jesus, so that He may enter in and control us. This is so different. Can't you see the danger in calling the bible the Word of God? It is dangerous for unbelievers who think they can be saved by the bible. It is dangerous for those who base an entire faith or religion on the bible. And it is dangerous for believers, who deny Christ in them, and substitute Him for an idol they can see and touch and use to remain in control. When will the Church see her sin and turn back to her first love?

The servant is not greater than the master. The bible is not the Word of God. The bible is a testimony that testifies to the Word of God who is Jesus Christ.

The bible is a vessel by which the Word of God can come. Jesus can use the bible to speak to us. However, that doesn't make it Jesus. It is just a vessel. Without Christ, the bible is just a book.

Let us all hold fast to our first love. Let us not follow the bible, but follow Christ who lives inside of us. Has anyone who truly submitted themselves unto Christ, ever been lead astray by Him?

In Christ,

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/6/21 10:51Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re: one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospe

luckyd,

I would guess all of us had to deal with this question. I also have to ponder the one of 'eternal hell' and I have been a Christian many years and now am 59 YO! I do not understand it. But there are lots of things I do NOT understand and still act in faith that these things are so. For example, I do not know how a car engine works, but do know it needs gasoline to run and needs a regular tune-up. So I will gas it up so I can operate the vehicle. So it is with Bible doctrine. The concept of eternity is beyond our capability to understand because we are finite: everything has a begining and an end.

luckyd, there are testimonies of people who live in closed countries where the LORD revealed himself supernaturally and they served the LORD faithfully. Check out the story of Sammy Morris - you should be able to find his story on the web. There is another dear lady who the LORD spoke to supernaturally and her name is Jayapradha Bandela, and she presently lives in Florida. luckyd, I believe Jesus will reveal Himself to people who will accept Him, even those in Moslem countries - there are too many testimonies of this having occurred.

Take heart, brother. Just because something does not make sense, does not mean it ain't true! It just means we are ignorant! :-( or human - take your pick! :-D

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/6/21 11:36Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
You are denying Christ inside of you.



No, no, no, Blake, Isn't this a copy of the other post you had written? Brother, I really think you are missing the thought, did you really read any of this? There is no division and no need to continue talking past each other here. I understand much more of what you are saying than it may appear I am letting on to, am only attempting to keep the 'sides' from pulling away from each other. I will leave it be.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/21 16:33Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2662
Nottingham, England

 Re:

The original question concerned hell and the heathen. If blake does not believe the Bible is the word of God, when we do reach the heathen, do we give them a Bible or not?

 2006/6/22 2:04Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Crsschk,

Did I write that in another post? I do not recall doing so, but I may have.

You are my brother and I love you dearly. I have been praying for you that the Lord would open your eyes and show you what He has shown me. I have been praying for us all. We desperately need Christ, including me.

Quote:
I really think you are missing the thought, did you really read any of this?



I have read it, however, I may not have been listening as well as I could have been. Please, my brother, explain to me again.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/6/22 8:23Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
You are my brother and I love you dearly. I have been praying for you that the Lord would open your eyes and show you what He has shown me. I have been praying for us all. We desperately need Christ, including me.


Am smiling broadly brother ... Have been praying something similar :-)

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever [i]I have said[/i] unto you.

Many ways this could be looked at it seems. Surely it meant this, and will take it out of order for a moment;

[b]and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you[/b]; which through inattention, or want of understanding in them, had slipped their minds, and were forgotten by them. This accounts for it, how the evangelists some years after the death of Christ; at different times and places, and without consulting each other, could commit to writing the life, actions, sayings, and sermons of Christ, with all the minute circumstances attending them.

John Gill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another that needs to be recalled here briefly;

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Remember ...?

Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
Joh 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Even though He had told them repeatedly about what was to come.

[b]he shall teach you all things[/b]: this is the proper work and business of the Spirit, to teach, interpret, and explain all things which Christ [u]had said to them[/u]; to make them more plain and easy to their understandings; to instruct them in all things necessary to salvation, and to be known by them, that they might teach them others:

Where our perfect agreement meets is in the Lord, Who, if we recall to mind (speaking to everyone here) is alive ... [i]Now[/i]. Where we may be at odds somewhat is in trying to remember that what He has spoken is in the past, but not that the past is all there is. It is past, future and present.

What is it that is recalled to mind in our experience but that which we have read, or heard preached? What are the "[i]all things[/i]" that the Holy Spirit brings to our remembrance?

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, [i]have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying[/i] ...

The Bible is not ... many of those same things that you have described elsewhere, granted. The paper, ink, almost strange that it would need to be addressed, kind of like saying air is colorless. It's a given and I do understand what you mean by the way it can be [i]used[/i] or appealed to by many for their own proscriptions and\or agendas. Tearing out John chapter 3 dipping it in honey and swallowing it will likely give you indigestion, but it will not save your soul.

Where I would be utmost concerned is where you would have Gods thought somewhat relegated to a corner by way of "Good for instruction" etc. You had stated that it was the icing on the cake, brother it is the cake.

It was recorded by and for good reason. To what will we appeal to? The often fuzzy notions mingled in with the ongoing renewing of our minds and hearts? Trust yourself and your own thoughts?
You may but I refuse, have found far too much folly that can distract me, emotions, circumstance, lack of prayer and resting on whatever 'knowledge' I may have absorbed. Lest we forget there is a real devil who comes often not in overt, overbearing ways as we are often inclined to think, but by tripping us up on our own reliance of self, with [i]good[/i] things even, an angel of light [i]disguised[/i], crafty and cunning. I do yet hope I am ever increasing in hearing the Lord speaking inwardly, quietly, spiritually, and a great deal of that is by prayer.

If we really stop to think about it ... Better, a different approach. Brother, take away all the scriptures.

What do you have?

Need to qualify that, forget everything you know about the Lord and take away the scriptures.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[i]A note; This all may seem far off the question of the orginal post, but I have a hunch it may well lend a great deal towards an answer.[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/22 10:13Profile





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