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luckyd
Member



Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospel

ok now i used to believe 100% about hell being for eternity, but now im thinking about how that could be. I don't understand how you would suffer for ETERNITY. I mean i know im not god and that i wouldn't understand fully, but i guess i want people here to just tell me an explanation so i can believe it because i don't feel right not being 100% about all gods word...my question is i can not understand about why muslims or other countries who would go to hell if they have never had the gospel preached to them...it doesn't make sense i mean they had NO way to hear the gospel and what if all they had to do was hear about jesus for 1 second yet they had NO way of knowing and then they die and they go to hell.....?Im just hoping to get sense so that my faith wont be less than 100% with those 2 things from the bible...thats all i have been struggling with


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jesse

 2006/6/20 3:31Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re: one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospe

Answering a student's question, 'Will the heathen who have not heard the Gospel be saved?' thus, 'It is more a question with me whether we, who have the Gospel and fail to give it to those who have not, can be saved.
-Charles Spurgeon

God is just and God is judge.

Perhaps you may like to read Romans 1-3.

God bless u!

 2006/6/20 3:54Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2662
Nottingham, England

 Re: one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospe

This is one of those questions that will vary a lot in the answers that people give. Concerning an eternal hell, it is just as the word of God says. Why do you suppose Jesus himself warned about it so much. Mark 9v42-48 and Isaiah 66v24 tells us that the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. And it is eternal. Forever. And as has been stated before, Romans chapters 1-3 need to be studied and understood as God demonstrating in nature His very existence. Romans 9v18 says...He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. God help us not to be hard hearted. And accept God's rebuke, correction, chastiement and whatever else needs to be meted out. God can and will reach the heathen without us. He has. So I have read. However, the word of God is our first authority concerning this world, this life, and eternity to come, whether in heaven or hell. Let's hope it's heaven. God bless.

 2006/6/20 8:38Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

This is a very difficult question to answer and I too have wondered about this...

However, I want to ask you a question. Before you answer, please take time to think it through.
Which is worse: A (EDIT: person) who has never heard the gospel dying and going to hell
or
A person who has heard the gospel, died without believing therefore going to hell?

My thoughts:
There is no difference. They will both end up in the same place and receive the same punishment. However, we (as humans) view the first person with sympathy but do not view the second person with the same sympathy. Why is this? Both are going to the same place to suffer the same punishment.

God is a God of justice. He will punish sin wherever it is found. It just as true today as it was in the Old Testament that God has chosen to reveal himself to some but not others. God is not wrong in doing this.

The example I heard was the following:
A warden has 1,000 prisoners in his prison. The warden choses to grant a pardon to one of the prisoners based not on what the prisoner has done to deserve the pardon, but on the mercy of the warden only. The warden pardons the prisoner and he goes free and his life is changed for the better.

Now, was the warden merciful?
Was the warden just?
Did the warden has the right to pardon the prisoner?

What if someone accused the warden of being mean and sadistic? Why didn't he pardon all the prisoners? If he is such a merciful warden, why did he not show mercy to all prisoners?

The fact is, all the prisoners deserve their sentence. If the warden choses to pardon some, it only highlights his goodness and mercy.

God is merciful in that we do not all end up in hell where we belong for our sins. Praise the name of the Lord!!!

 2006/6/20 12:15Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospe

Dear luckyd,

When I was first saved, I struggled with the idea of Hell a bit myself. I could not believe that the Lord would let someone suffer for eternity. However, I prayed over this matter.

Of course, you should immediately take these questions to the Lord in prayer. Not to say you haven't, but just making sure that you have. Give your heart and mind to the Lord, so that He may fill you with truth.

The reason I stress and emphasize prayer is because at the core of this question is an issue of trust. In the Lord's judgments, we must trust Him and trust that He is righteous. He is perfectly fit and capable to judge those who haven't heard the gospel rightly. We may not always understand the entire process by which He will make His judgments. We do know the basis. We know Jesus Christ. We know all authority has been granted to Christ, and that He will judge. We also know that Christ spoke of Heaven and Hell, both in terms of eternity. However, we do not know how Christ will judge. We do not know who is saved or not. All we can do is obey Christ in love, being completely abandoned to Him. If the Lord says speak, we should speak. And if the Lord says remain silent, then we should remain silent. Only then shall His work be complete, for only He knows the hearts of men.

We must trust Him. We must have faith in Him. This comes first. When this has been established, then the Lord will bless us with knowledge. Faith must come first because there is a danger for anyone to put their trust in logic and reasoning. Faith based upon logic and reasoning is empty and weak. If our faith is based on logic and reasoning, then we can easily be shaken by confusion. We are easy prey to the Devil, the author of lies and confusion. Thus, we must base our faith in Christ our Lord, placing all our trust in Him.

Think of children who know so little, and yet Christ said we need to have the faith of a child. We need to trust our Lord in Heaven just as a child trust his/her parents. We need not know how or why God works, but just trust in His person. Once we trust in Him completely, then He can work in us freely. Imagine if we have given up everything to Jesus....imagine what Jesus can do in us. Christ would be free to do anything. We could move moutains.

When this issue of faith has been dealt with, and our faith is at 100%, then the Lord will open our eyes to what our heart already knows. The Lord gives us knowledge not so we may have faith, but so that we may delight in His ways.

And I am a firm believer that no person should ever believe something just because it's in the bible. You should first seek after the Lord, and if He should choose to direct you toward the bible, then let Him speak to you through it. However, the Lord may use countless ways to speak to you. The answer may come through another believer, through an experience, or through personal revelation. The important thing is to first seek the Lord.

You may be tempted to first seek the answer. And you might say to the Lord, "I can't believe in you Lord unless you first give me an answer." If that is the case, the Lord will not give you an answer. The Lord wants to be first in your life. And so, my advice is to pray continually, seeking after the Lord persistently, and then He will answer your question. Once your faith is in Him, then He will bless you.

You are in my prayers.

In Christ,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/6/20 15:07Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
And I am a firm believer that no person should ever believe something just because it's in the bible. You should first seek after the Lord, and if He should choose to direct you toward the bible, then let Him speak to you through it. However, the Lord may use countless ways to speak to you. The answer may come through another believer, through an experience, or through personal revelation. The important thing is to first seek the Lord.



I would only say, check all this with the scriptures themselves.


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Mike Balog

 2006/6/20 15:58Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
I would only say, check all this with the scriptures themselves.



Who is your God, the scriptures or Christ? Who do you serve, the scriptures which contain the law, or Christ who set us free from the law?

If you read the scriptures, they all point to Jesus. And so, what should come first? Should scripture come first, or should Christ? Should we put our faith in Jesus or scripture? Should we trust in Jesus or scripture?

If you read scripture, it tells us to trust in Jesus. No where in scripture does it say to test all things against scripture. No where does it say scripture is the authority of all things. Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16 that scripture is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". The word profitable suggests an increase. Scripture is not the source of righteousness, however, it can help us increase in our knowledge and understanding of righteousness.

Scripture is not the authority on all things. Rather, John recorded Jesus as saying, "I am the way, and the truth" (John 14:6) and "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth" (John 16:3). As a believer, we are to place all our faith and trust in the Lord. Never once does scripture say we should check or test it against scripture. The bible is not greater than Christ or the Spirit.

There is a great danger in telling anyone to read scripture without consulting Christ or praying first. In order for anyone to read the bible and discern the truth within, they must first be lead by the Holy Spirit. If we tell a person to read the bible without first praying or seeking the Lord, then they are reading it with their own understanding. They are reading scripture and drawing conclusions in accord with their own logic and reasoning. When this happens, the person is lead farther away from Christ.

Scripture says this:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

Indeed, scripture is profitable for teaching and instructing. However, first we must submit ourselves completely and entirely unto the Lord. When we do this, when we first pray to Christ and ask Him to reveal truth to us, then we can read scripture and discern it. However, when we just throw scripture around expecting people to understand it, or worse yet, when we treat it like our Lord, expecting people to obey every word, then we are heading into dangerous ground. We are putting the bible above the Lord Himself.

Seek after the Lord first, and then we won't need the bible to tell us about God. Rather, the bible will be profit. It will be extra, like icing on the cake. Our faith will be in Christ, and the bible will be an affirmation of what we already know.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

In Christ,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/6/20 17:05Profile
Nellie
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Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

I agree Mike, if it doesn't line up with the Word of God, the Bible, leave it alone.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

 2006/6/20 17:35Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I believe also that God will be just. I do believe hell is eternal, and that it is eternal destruction. The Scriptures are very clear about that.

Concerning those who haven't heard the gospel, listening to Paris Reidhead's testimony of the natives in Africa was eye-opening. He said he would ask them who made a stick or a leaf, and they would give him a name, we will say Alpha is his name. Then he would ask the natives who they sacrificed to, and they would say another name, we will say Bravo for this name.

When asked why they worshipped Bravo, the natives said they didn't want him to destroy their crops, wreck their lives, etc. When asked who they faced when they died, they said Alpha. When asked where Alpha lived, they pointed to the mountain tops. Paris then asked them what would get them in trouple with Alpha, they said stealing, lying, adultery, basically all Ten Commandments.

So even in the jungles in Africa, they knew that the God that created everything would judge them after their death, which basically is what Romans 1 and other Scriptures says, that they are without excuse. I like what a street preacher on one of Ray Comfort's video said, that our conscience has already told us that we stand before a perfect God, condemned.

We will see on Judgment Day, let's just make sure we are preaching the gospel to someone.


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Hal Bachman

 2006/6/20 18:30Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: one question about hell and one question about countires who never hear the gospe

Hi luckyd,

Quote:
my question is i can not understand about why muslims or other countries who would go to hell if they have never had the gospel preached to them...



I would like to offer some verses for you to consider in your seeking concering this question and I'd like to share a bit of my own understanding along with them and I pray that God will bless our discussion. :-D

Some verses to consider first from John...

Quote:
..but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



and this is "how" I think....

Quote:
And this is the condemnation...



Quote:
..that light is come into the world,...



Quote:
...and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.



I think(only opinon) that John is at least hinting that all men sin against the light(see also John 1:4)

Now also compare these with what Paul wrote in Romans chapter 1...

Quote:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,....



again connecting this with sinning against the light...

Quote:
who hold the truth in unrighteousness



I believe that Paul goes on to explain this very specifically in the next few verses.

He says things like...

a knowledge of God is...

Quote:
manifest in them



he says...

Quote:
God hath shewed it unto them.



He says these things are..

Quote:
clearly seen



so that...

Quote:
they are without excuse:



That is some pretty heavy stuff brother. But I really think he is making a strong case that all of us, that is humanity, sin against the light.

Now, from verse 21 on I think he goes on to talk about what happens because of this, specifically idolatry, or you might even say false religon?

In religous terms, we might consider there are two types of people, those who had the law and those who didn't. The Law was(but not only) a special gift of God to reveal His righteousness and to reveal sin.

And Paul says that both of these groups are condemend...

Quote:
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law...



Quote:
....and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;



After treating with different aspects of this, he restates this point again in chapter 3..

Quote:
..for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;



And after this comes the well know passage about there being none righteous, not even one.

What is interesting about the description that follows is all the parts of the body that are mentioned... the throat, the tounge, the lips, the feet, and the eyes...as though he were saying we are corrupt from head to toe!

I hope that these verse will be helpfull. This is a pretty heavy topic but important too.

Peace be with you all in Christ Jesus


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/20 19:22Profile





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