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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

I agree with what you just said but just to clarify I am talking about in my prior post, tears in the preachers eyes and a brokeness of spirit in the preaching.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/20 16:40Profile
brentw
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Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
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 Re:

Brent wrote:

Quote:
Now preaching to sinners on the street about bikinis is for me creating a bunch of "DONT'S". Get them saved and then disciple them! Teach them modesty.



Brother Greg...maybe you missed this in my post? I do agree with you 100%!!


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Brent

 2006/6/20 17:19Profile
Christisking
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Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
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 Re:

This deserves to be re-read a couple of dozens of times. Very well said Greg.

Quote:
Brother I agree this needs to be preached to Christians but why are we trying to preach it to heathen? they don't know any better its just a fruit of their depravity. All your quotes and what Raven hill is saying is towards the church! for the church not to act like the world. We need to preach CHRIST to people, to present Him Crucified, there is no way for people to realize the way they are living is wrong until they see the Cross and what Jesus did for them. Again show me anywhere were people's paticular sin is pushed in their face boldy! that is not how the apostles or Christ Himself preached. But that does not mean they did not have earnestness. But a strange thing I have seen under the sun, preaching on hell without tears, preaching judgement on sin, and the sickness of sin without tears.



If you are not weeping and wailing over the sins of the people and the depravity and wickedness of the times, in my opinion you have no right to preach against them. How many hours have you spent in your prayer closet weeping over the conditions of these poor girls who in their lack of self worth have unwittingly become co-workers of Satan? The compassion and love of the Holy Spirit and the same compassion Jesus had when he weeped over Jerusalem should come through unmistakably in your voice as you preach, even when preaching against sin, judgement, hell, or wrath.

Although we should be ready preach at any moment, we should also shut ourselves up with the Lord and seek after Him as to what He wants us to say and the word He wants spoken. I would seriously wonder if the Lord told me go to the beach and preach against bikini's - here are five points. I would wonder if it was the Lord I was listening to or someone else.

I am not against hard preaching, preaching judgment and wrath, railing against sin and hell fire preaching, in fact, I have and will continue to preach that way when instructed to by the Lord, but only when clearly instructed to by the Lord after hours of prayers and tears and weeping and wailing.

Brother Robert wrote a post a couple of weeks back about purity in preaching and keeping our tounges free from the fires of hell. I think it would do us all well to give that post another read.


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Patrick Ersig

 2006/6/20 17:44Profile









 Re:

I'm really with you in all that you are asying. One must be to bridge that gap; there must revelation. Crock tears won't cut it.

:-(

 2006/6/20 18:49
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Quote:
Crock tears won't cut it.


Break us Lord, Break us Lord, Break us Lord! We want apostolic reality, early church success, may your Kingdom advance!


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 2006/6/20 21:50Profile
teamtoucan
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 Re: Just a thought

Hi this is Brian's wife Tracey,

I was nursing and we (along with many health professionals) say "treat the cause not just the symptoms".

Here we have symptoms - women dressing in-appropriately. My thoughts were that maybe we need to address the underlying need for a saviour. He is the one who leads us into all truth regarding even modesty.

Just a quick thought...

BTW 10 out or 10 for your bravery (the person who started this thread) in going out to the streets and preaching! I admire that you self sacrifice in that way. May God keep leading us and growing us to see exactly what words he wants us to be preaching.

Every blessing,
Tracey =)


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Brian and Tracey Clack

 2006/6/20 21:50Profile









 Re:

I would like to say that I agree the 5 point sermon really isn't the best. There really was no elaberation on the points. In the preaching all I did was make the points, it lasted a few seconds, and then I went on preaching.

Rather then using crude words I tried to use words I thought would not be crude. My apologies if some of you find the words I have used to be crude. I admit I was abit surprised to hear some found the word "bikini" to be out of line.

From now on I will preach the modified version of the sermon. It's one point, "Too much flesh".

Quote:
if man or woman dress in a way that people look at that person in a lustful way, then that person is a tool of the devil , arent they?



Yes they are a tool of the devil. A women who dresses in a way to intentionally stir up lust is a child of the devil, who is out doing her fathers bussiness. Until she understands she is a child of the devil, she won't understand being adopted into the family of God.

We must publicly condemn all sin. Don't let the world get in you. I was absolutely appauled to find that there were some here on these forums justifying bikinis! For get about preaching holiness, you can't even preach modesty!! A bikini is as immodest as you can get. If you believe in bikinis, you do not believe in modesty. You cannot get any more immodest then a bikini. God help us. What a pitiful standard of morality we have today!

I still can't believe people on these boards condemn the preaching and justify bikinis!!!

I would say the only time a bikini is acceptable is when it's a wife wears one in the pool alone with her husband. But if they have children in the pool or in eye view of the pool, God forbid she wears a bikini. Children should not see that much flesh of their mother. There are parts of a women which should only be viewed by the husband.

This is a good point, "treat the cause not just the symptoms".

In my sermon, I simply pointed out the symptom and then went for the cause. I said, "if you are wearing a bikini out here today there is something wrong with you. If you don't mind men seeing those parts of your body there is something terribly, terribly wrong with you. You have a filthy heart and you need Jesus to clean you up. Jesus Christ can give you a new heart."

Notice the medical language, "there is something wrong with you" and how is that determined? By the symptom. Bikinis, beers, violence, pornography, secular music that glorifies sin, violent video games, blasphemy, lying, stealing, etc etc are all but symptoms of a sinful, unregenerate heart. And Jesus is the answer.

So again, while I should have picked my words more wisely for the sermon, and I apologies for that, bikinis are absolutely sinful and must be preached against just as any other sin. A preacher who does not preach against sin is not a preacher of the bible at all.

While I agree that a preacher can fall into error by preaching too little of Christ, I completely disagree that a preacher can preach too much against sin. Until a person understands their sin, they can never understand the cross.

God bless us all as we seek to preach the gospel to sinners.

 2006/6/20 22:54
JeffreyOlver
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Joined: 2006/6/20
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 Re:

One thing "y'all" should keep in mind. We were at this lake in Mineola, Texas - THE BIBLE BELT.

The MAJORITY (and I do not exaggerate) of this crowd were 'professing' Christians.
The practically naked girl that stole Jesse's Bible and threw it in the Lake did so with the preamble; "I like God's word. I don't like what you're doing to it." She then demonstrated just how much she hated God's word.

There were "Christian" parents on this beach saying they did not want their children to hear about drunkenness and fornication - they say this standing in the midst of a half-naked crowd, with plenty drinking alcohol.

While I do indeed understand what some of you folks are saying that it may be putting the cart in front of the horse to instruct sinners about modesty...Your point is very well taken. But gracious, the way some of you are talking I'd expect the next thing to be reprimanded would be the telling to drunkards to be sober!

You absolutely cannot deny that the problem in America is not legalism - IT'S LAWLESSNESS.

One young woman had been at the beach was certainly convicted about her wearing of a bikini. She came over, now wearing a t-shrit and a towel around her waist, asked me some questions about what we were doing and then said that she didn't want anyone looking at her body anymore. And she was shocked at the reaction of the people.

No matter where you go to truly shine as a light in a dark place, the darkness will try to stamp or filter you out. Unless, of course, you make the light a little less harsh, by adding the filter of compromise. Or if you try to color a different way to make it more pleasing to the (spiritual) eye.

Browse through the sermons by Leonard Ravenhill. Listen carefully at his aside comments and prayers...many times you hear the burden he has for this area where Jesse and I currently live, East Texas.

Bible belt? It's a belt of bondage! And it's wrapped around the necks of many, tightening and tightening with each justification for sin and compromise!

Forget the whole "teaching a sinner modesty" thing that was brought up...

...you preach about purity the lacivious will cry out against you! You preach about sobriety, the drunkards will rail at you! You preach about blasphemy, you can expect to be verbally assaulted! You preach about idolatry and sure enough some will jump and prance around lifting up their praises to Satan. You preach about Jesus Christ being THE way, THE truth and THE life, and the moral relativists would like to lynch you!

If we can't preach about sin and freedom from sin through Christ, what will we preach??? Oh, what will we?

 2006/6/20 23:03Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Quote:
In my sermon, I simply pointed out the symptom and then went for the cause. I said, "if you are wearing a bikini out here today there is something wrong with you. If you don't mind men seeing those parts of your body there is something terribly, terribly wrong with you. You have a filthy heart and you need Jesus to clean you up. Jesus Christ can give you a new heart."


I would just like you to give scripture to justify this message to the be in agreement with the "apostolic" message in the bible. I did not find Jesus preaching against the prostitutes and whoremongers about their lewd deeds and even more against the way they brazenly dressed to alure men. The Apostles were in citys like Corinth which one big "giant cesspool of sin." But I am sure they preached the message of Christ, the Cross of Christ and the Resurrection of Christ from the dead.

To tell people that there is something wrong with them because they were clothes that aren't modest is not correct. There is something wrong with them because they love darkeness more then light, they wallow in mud because they know no better, they are pigs! We need to address their overall condition as "rebellion" to God and not "glorifying" or wanting to "worship" God, who is their "creator". These are all important key words to understand the root selfish, deprived, prideful nature of men that don't desire to come to God.

But we must proclaim Christ as glorious, as King, as [b]lovely[/b]! He is the pearl of great price!

At times there is biblical warrant to name sins and preach against them to unbelievers but the main aim of the axe is to hit the root of the tree which is not petty sins but rather the root of their rebellion and unwillingness to come to God. And perhaps at times it is a sin that mainly holds a person back but I am sure wearing un-modest clothing is not that sin for [b]many[/b] people.

On the other side of things preaching these things to Christians is a whole other angle and yes it is good to preach modesty to Christians and that is part of the sanctification of believers. I do also would point out the fact of not making a believer stumble, there is progressive revelation given by God, and if I dare say it also progression sanctification.


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 2006/6/20 23:06Profile
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Quote:
You absolutely cannot deny that the problem in America is not legalism - IT'S LAWLESSNESS.


Yes, but what is the root of lawlessness? who are they being lawless to? God. They don't love God or desire to come to Him. We must proclaim what God did for people, John 3:16-17 that Christ came not to condemn the world but to save it. That speaks to me that the weight of preaching of the gospel [b]must[/b] be on the love, grace, cross of Christ for the people's salvation.

Surely yes they will perish and yes because of sin, and yes thats because of their lawlessness and disobeying the commandments of God. But we have to preach to the sinners: come to Christ, Flee to Christ, flee your sin. But the epitome must be Christ! He must be paramount, in preaching we must make Christ stand out.

I am not trying to say what you good brothers are doing is wrong but [b]balance[/b] is always what we should strive for "biblical balance" that is, it is too easy to go off with one or two truths and get out of the will of God in a certain situation. Perhaps it was ordained of God that you brothers preached on the beach but setting a precedent on these things is hard. I am just personally striving to be as biblically accurate desiring to walk out in my life the acts of the apostles.

On a sidenote me and brother Ricki will be going to open air preach, hand out tracts, and pray for people on the streets of toronto this weekend. There is a gay pride festival (one of the largest in the world) happening in toronto with the slogan: FEARLESS. It is very saddening to my heart but I feel the Spirit of God in my jealous to proclaim the fear of God and the awful majesty of God to people, setting forth that this God emptied Himself to the cross to die for our sins so that we might be the beloved of God. I appreciate prayers for this weekend.


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 2006/6/20 23:25Profile





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