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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : talking in tounges???

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

letsgetbusy wrote:
We obviously disagree on the initial evidence, so let me ask you this way. If you are right, and tongues is the initial evidence, what are you saying happened to me the day I was not truly baptized by the Holy Ghost?



While I realise that you have poste this to someone specific, about a specific issue, I'm drawing on this to highlight something, it is not necessary to believe that "glossalalea" is [b]the[/b] initial evidence. But scripture seems o imply that the "evidence" come out of the mouth. Why, I hear you ask? Because, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh".


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/27 7:19Profile
RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re:

I wonder what would have happened if the translators of the KJV just translated "glossa gloce-sah'" into "a language". That would have solved this whole dispute right off the bat.

Hmmmmmmm :-)


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Randy Steinke

 2006/6/27 7:42Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

RandyJ wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if the translators of the KJV just translated "glossa gloce-sah'" into "a language". That would have solved this whole dispute right off the bat.

Hmmmmmmm :-)



No...I don't think it would, because tongues and language is the same thhing, but "gift of grace" and "natural ability" are not. 1 Cor 12 deals with "charismata" or "gifts of grace".


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/27 7:48Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

if tounges is the evidence, then al those men in the beginning of the thread werent filled whit the spirit? how come they did so much work for god whitout being filled or baptised and some others that do speak in tounges dont do sutch works as they did? i meen if you say the evidence of being baptised is tounges, and moody and ravenhill and those other dident speak in tounges, then they werent baptised? or what are you saying???


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/6/27 8:36Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

I alwys thought that Ravenhill did speak in tongues? I know that he didn't discount the gift. The point of this is that Baptism in the Spiit is evidenced from the mouth. Finney had trouble staying quiet when he received the Spirit, for example, and was afraid of waking those in his house, as it was late at light.

Does this mean that the utterance has to be tongues? Of course not. Oftetimes it may be the return of a smile that has long been vacant. Other times it may be sobbing, as tears springing from dried out tear ducts. My point is that it may be tongues, but it doesn't have to be.

Any serious Pentacostal/Charismatic of a more theological bend, who aren't caught up in prosperity and third wave pot holes support this. I have personally known many who have been filled with te Spirit who never spake in tongues. Oftentimes they were left to feel like "spiritual lepers" because they didn't display the kind of "initial evidence" that is socially acceptable.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/27 9:15Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Logic wrote:
Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.

Are you saying that "prophecy" (which most conservatives interperate as "annointed preaching", which I agree with) is out of our control? True, the "annointed" part of our preaching is out of our control, but the preaching isn't. In the same way, the "utterance" is out of our control, but the "proclaimation of that utterance" is not.


No, I am not, but that isn't what i am talking about, That which most conservatives interperate as "annointed preaching" is only [b]Rev 19:10,b[/b] [color=990000]...For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.[/color]

prophecy which is equal to the [b]Gift of tongues[/b] would be the fortelling of futer events.

It is almost like the Gift of Wisdom, but not personal, for the Gift of Wisdom is to a person and Gift of prophecy is to the world or the people in wich you are addressing.

My friend who has prophesied many things which has come to pass in his ministry had been born of the Spirit and not from his own effort.

He could not have know the future and it's events like he fortold while prophesying.

So that Gift of tongues is not of our own control or effort.

 2006/6/27 10:33Profile









 Re:

Stever posts:

In my opinion, we should never take one verse out of the Bible to prove a point. In 1 Corinthians 14:4, Paul writes, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.”

Verse 9 says, “So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? For ye shall speak into the air.” Verse 18 was the verse mentioned in the letter. “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all.”

In Verse 19 Paul writes, “Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousands words in an unknown tongue.”

Paul also wrote in verses 27–28, “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.”

In verse 33, Paul wrote, “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever concludes: I mainly use tongues as an individual prayer language, when I am praying for others, or myself. I also use it at Bible Study where others there interpret it. I never use it audibly at Church.

What I have found is, that if I wake up in the middle of the night, and a person is on my mind, I pray for that person. If the Holy Spirit does not reveal to me what that persons needs are, I then pray in tongues. Later, when I talk with whoever I prayed for, I find that they were sick, going through a trial, had a accident (autombile or other), and at the moment I was praying in tongues, they needed prayer. I never question the Spirit.

God bless,

Stever :-D

P.S. I notice a lot of personal opinion on this thread, but not any personal experience in this matter. Why is that?

 2006/6/27 10:51









 Re:

Stever posts to Clakforest and Logic:

The gift of tongues is received at the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Both Clarkforest and Logic seem to be opposed to all forms of this gift.

My question to each of you is:

When (the date and time) exactly did each of you receive this baptism of Fire, The Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

What were the circumstances of this baptism? Where did it take place, who was there, etc.

What is the fruit of this Baptism of Fire in your personal walk with Jesus Christ? Please provide examples.

Since neither of you have received the gift of tongues, what other gifts have you received from this baptism, if you have received it?




God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/27 11:56
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Joh 3:8
Verse 8. The wind bloweth, &c. Nicodemus had objected to the doctrine because he did not understand how it could be. Jesus shows him that he ought not to reject it on that account, for he constantly believed things quite as difficult. It might appear incomprehensible, but it was to be judged of by its effects. As in this case of the wind, the effects were seen, the sound was heard, important changes were produced by it, trees and clouds were moved, yet the wind is not seen, nor do we know whence it comes, nor by what laws it is governed; so it is with the operations of the Spirit. We see the changes produced, Men just now sinful become holy; the thoughtless become serious; the licentious become pure; the vicious, moral; the moral, religious; the prayerless, prayerful; the rebellious and obstinate, meek, and mild, and gentle. When we see such changes, we ought no more to doubt that they are produced by some cause--by some mighty agent, than when we see the trees moved, or the waters of the ocean piled on heaps, or feel the cooling effects of a summer's breeze. In those cases we attribute it to the wind, though we see it not, and though we do not understand its operations. We may learn, hence,

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/6/27 12:40Profile
inastruzay
Member



Joined: 2006/5/3
Posts: 7


 Re:

The only disagreement as far as I can tell is whether Tounges is initial evidance.
To continue on in this vein Pro or Con is fruitless. (Hmmmm had some valid questions)in his first post and as I travel this site I see many of these posters looking to argue their understanding and/or experiance. Lets help each other where we can and go on to the next discussion. If something doesn't give life to the hearers it is less than led. Anybody getting fed here with all this back and forth?
Without Faith it is impossible to please GOD.
;-)


_________________
John Grove

 2006/6/27 19:40Profile





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