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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : talking in tounges???

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Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Well I thought about the argument that Jesus and John the Baptist did not speak in tongues.
So far I know of speaking in tongues only happened after Christ's death and ressurection, anybody ever seen this?

As for the "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani"..
An explanation I heard (on a biblecamp) why this was in Aramaic was because this was the language who was spoken in the houses. So this should also have been the language Jesus spoke in his childhood and possible in every day life.

It seems that people who where born in a country and emigrate to another country and master the (2nd) language very well seem to use their own language to express pain or great distress even if they already lived in that other country for years and years. So this also .happens when you speak more then one language

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but atleast I know that I will shout 'auw' if someone pinches me. ;)


_________________
Jonathan Veldhuis

 2006/6/26 15:06Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

RandyJ wrote:
If that is what a person means when he says tongues then I will agree.



Someone once asked me if I spake in tongues. I said, "Not as much as I used to." He then asked, "Is it a real language or just babble?" I replied, "I don't know. I've never tried to translate it."

While I agree that their is much abuse of this spiritual gift (ie, "gift of grace", or charismata, as opposed to "natural ability"), I think that we must tread carefully on both sides, as if the Charismatics are right, and this is part of what Paul refered to as "praying in the Spirit, then why deny someone something that will build up the inner man? Only hope more to "prophecy" that we may build others up also.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/26 17:20Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.

 2006/6/26 19:28Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

hw,

We obviously disagree on the initial evidence, so let me ask you this way. If you are right, and tongues is the initial evidence, what are you saying happened to me the day I was not truly baptized by the Holy Ghost?

Here is a synopsis of the experience. I prayed for quite some time for the fire of God, spending time alone praying, looking in the Word, feeling broken for weeks and weeks. The day my experience happened, I fell down on my knees twice with tears, and the third time I felt the Spirit of God on me, I screamed so loud I went hoarse, and felt like painless electricity was going through my body.

I was told I needed to pray for tongues, which I did. I read a book on how to speak in tongues, and even attempted to do so, and did not feel edified. During a prayer time in my study, I asked God to show me which gift was His to me, and so I pointed to a random verse in Scripture to get a number to match up with the list of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12. My finger fell on verse 31 on a random book and chapter in the Scriptures, which I matched to 1 Cor 12:31-

"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

Again, from your stance, what happened to me?


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/6/26 19:47Profile
inastruzay
Member



Joined: 2006/5/3
Posts: 7


 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
well i think im right in that the spirit is a gift thats free, its given, now i want to recive it... some get it almost instant..and others have waited a long time. I trust god to know the perfect time for me for this batism, in my mind any time would be perfect but i trust in him, i long for this baptism... i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...



My friend,

I understand.
many things there are that stumble but remember to hold to that, that is good. We all have oppurtuity many times in our lives to stumble at the chief cornerstone. As I said before, Prov 11:1 a false balance is an abomination to the LORD.
Many times I see the kids down the street doing things that I would not want my kids to do, it is my responsibility to speak to their parents and determine with them to help be an example as well I hope that my kids would be an example.
Give your friends to the LORD and determine to let HIM deal with them in the way that will magnify HIM in their lives.
As for you, the LORD has "allowed you to see this" and question, which is quite natural-now don't get imbalanced and judge but rather go back to the LORD with what he has "shown you in the Spirit"--perhaps he wants you to pray for these folks. Which brings a good point which being tounges. Yes God has placed a desire to speak in Tounges? Good! Do well with what he has givin you concerning tounges, namely he has "shown you by his Spirit" some people that speak in tounges and their lifestyle is not so good? Why did God show you this? Surely not to embitter you. Complete this.
Shared this in humility because I have had to chew tough meat also--but it's very nourishing.
Peace


_________________
John Grove

 2006/6/26 20:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds:

Says who? Anyone with the gift of tongues can speak at will anytime they choose.

It is a gift from God that is used by the Spirit filled believer to pray with, when we do not know how to pray. Many times I wake up in the middle of the night with a person on my mind. I know that that person needs prayer, but sometimes the Spirit does not let me know why they need prayer. After a short prayer, lifting up this brother or sister, I pray in tongues for this person for a very long time.


God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/26 22:41
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3691
Ca.

 Re:

1 Corinthians 12:10-11 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.

This seems to be delima, speak then pray with the mind that you might speak with understanding.

1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. :-?

My spirit, what is that? My spirit is now the Spirit of Christ. My spirit is nonexistent. My soul can pray that the mind will and emotions of a human being, it now is taught by the Holy Spirit and The Holy Spirit only uses tongues to teach others who Christ is and what He is saying. All the gifts of the Spirit are operated in this realm.

John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All the gifts of the Spirit are for one thing and one thing only teach us who the Christ that has been born again in us and praying or speaking in an unknown tongue is not in the Holy Spirit's teachings. When the Holy Spirit speaks to us He Speaks to our minds with understanding and enlightenment of who Christ is. Besides Tongues are for the unbeliever anyhow, I not knowing Navaho, speak by the power of the Holy Spirit and a Navaho Indian understands the Gospel by this language from the Holy Spirit through me to him.

Where does it say to pray in an unknown tongue, I thought Jesus said Pray in this way, "Our Father who art in Heaven," and the rest does not say shut your mind off and speak with lips that make no sense and believe that God is hearing us. Not. If we don't know what to pray just say so and the Holy Spirit will pray for us in sounds so deep to the Father that only the Father knows what to answer.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/6/26 23:29Profile









 Re:

Phillip Christinyou posted:

"Where does it say to pray in an unknown tongue, I thought Jesus said Pray in this way, "Our Father who art in Heaven," and the rest does not say shut your mind off and speak with lips that make no sense and believe that God is hearing us. Not. If we don't know what to pray just say so and the Holy Spirit will pray for us in sounds so deep to the Father that only the Father knows what to answer.

In Christ: Phillip

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds:

Paul is the one that received revelation knowledge from Christ about this gift, as well as the other "gifts of the spirit".

Paul is also the one that received and revealed the revelation of the rapture of the Church. (doctrine that is not found in the Old Testament, but new Doctrine, only found in the New Testament)

Paul went directly to heaven and saw glorious revelations, directly from Christ. Christ gave Paul a "messenger from Satan" to keep him humble after this experience:

2 Cor 12:1-12
" 1. It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
6. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 11. I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/27 0:15
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3691
Ca.

 Re:

One other Question Steve:

You say God wakes you up to pray for someone that he brought to your mind. Why would God do that? I can think of only one reason. That would be to build up your faith in answering the prayer for the other person, but for you to gain faith you would have to know what to pray so you could see the answer to build up your faith.

Praying in an unknown tongue would be fruitless. If you don't know what to pray for the person, why don't you ask the Holy Spirit, if He went to the trouble to wake you up for a specific prayer for someone else, I am sure He would give you the answer of what to pray. All the gifts are for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, and anything unknown would not be to that effect. Us speaking in an unknown tongue, that is a heavenly language is just to build up our own ego and we can prove it by doing the deed, then in the doing show all our peers how spiritual we are, you see we are just like you. I can speak in an unknown tongue, __*%$#$%&()()_+()(&^$^&^%*((_)_*)(&^^^%$&^(*_+__)(*&* sorry I don't have an interpreter. Or: glwssa glossa gloce-sah' Interpretation: of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue.
Understand? One is worthless and one is knowledge of the Word of God for upbuilding the Body of Christ to truth. One us unknown, One is Greek interpreted.



In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/6/27 0:40Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.



Are you saying that "prophecy" (which most conservatives interperate as "annointed preaching", which I agree with) is out of our control? True, the "annointed" part of our preaching is out of our control, but the preaching isn't. In the same way, the "utterance" is out of our control, but the "proclaimation of that utterance" is not.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/27 6:57Profile





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