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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : talking in tounges???

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RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re: letgetbusy

Quote:
But going along with your line of thinking, you stated that if one had not spoken in tongues, they could not be authoritative on tongues. True statement. But I submit this, if you have not received a baptism of the Holy Ghost without tongues, how can you be authoritative to say it cannot happen. Especially taking into consideration the list of great men of God I submitted before.


Well said. By the way Jesus did speak in tongues.
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46


_________________
Randy Steinke

 2006/6/24 23:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
ive studied the bible... ive listend to sermons, ive talked to people, ive prayed to god. i have come to the conclusion that i havent had the baptism of the holy ghost, i know i was born again and recived the holy ghost, i felt it i knew it when it happend, surley the baptism will be an experience like this i belive, what i meen is if one has had the baptism they would know.
and i do think you can be filled whit the holy spirit and not speak in tounges, if i recive this gift from god ill accept it and praise him,
if not i will praise him anyway. The thing that disturbs me the most i must say is that i know of people that live in sin and claim to have this gift and the baptism, now i know its a gift, its nothing we can earn by works.
but still i have this dubts about some people....



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds:

In my intellect, I agree with you. But, if I look at the Corinthians, who had all of the gifts, including tongues and everything else, I also see a group of baby Christians who were into the flesh and other things. Paul even told these same believers about God's personal revelation to him of the rapture, and that they would be part of it.

We have to be careful, because you and I see the outside, while God sees the heart.

Do you know of anyone who is baptized in the Holy Ghost that you trust? If so, ask them to lead you into this Baptism by the laying on of hands.

If you know of no one, then contact Calvary Chapel, a non-denominational Church that has a branch that is located in your area that not only believes in the gifts of the Spirit, but supports the gifts.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/25 4:22
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

well i think im right in that the spirit is a gift thats free, its given, now i want to recive it... some get it almost instant..and others have waited a long time. I trust god to know the perfect time for me for this batism, in my mind any time would be perfect but i trust in him, i long for this baptism... i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2006/6/25 6:52Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...



Alot of ahteists use this arguement to justify their atheism. My advice would be to pass by those that cause you to stumble and consider those have had the experience that are [b]balanced[/b]. People like Wilkerson, Katz, Poonen, Verwer, etc to name but a few. My experience is that many fake this, as many fake conversion.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/25 8:29Profile
RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re: I get confused

I just want to make a quick statement here. A person may "speak in tongues", according to the modern sense, and be either sinful or holy. Just because a person speaks in tongues does not mean that they are holy for it does not take a holy person to say "habadahabada". Also, if a person speaks in tongues and they are immoral it does not mean that speaking in tongues is not a gift of the Spirit. To understand whether or not such a thing is a Biblical practice we need only look to the Bible.
I do not think that saying "habada habada" is speaking in tongues and it is completly irrelevant who has thought that it was speaking in tongues and even less relevant who has partook of the practice.
In order to understand what "speaking in tongues" was we simply look at what the word tongues means. The word tongues means "the tongue; by implication, a language" Strong's Dictionary
If the whole Christian world were to stand up and start saying "habada habada" yet I could not believe that the tongues in the Bible was anything but a regular language that was supernaturally imparted to certain individuals for the sake of spreading the Gospel.


_________________
Randy Steinke

 2006/6/25 23:09Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

RandyJ wrote:
I do not think that saying "habada habada" is speaking in tongues and it is completly irrelevant who has thought that it was speaking in tongues and even less relevant who has partook of the practice.



You don't have to believe in the "gift of tongues (glossalalea)", as taught in modern Pentacostal/Charismatic circles, but neither does that render it false. To minimise glossalalea to "habada habada", is as naive as an atheist accusing a Christian of being iresponsable for trusting in "Christ alone" for salvation. After all, isn't it irresponsable to expect Christ to "pay the price" for "our sins"? My pointing to the people that I did, is because they are people who have proven their integrity and are also people who exersize the gift of glossalalea, because the poster's experience of people who "spoke in tongues" was that most of them lacked in moral interity. I

David Pawson defines glossalalea as the ability to learn to speak in an unkown language in "seconds flat", where some protestant theologians try to reduce it by claiming it to mean the ability to learn a new language in weeks instead of years. That would not be a "gift" but a "natural ability". Now whether or not you agree with the guy, the fact is, we [b]cannot definitely prove either stance[/b]. We who claim to have the gift, claim to have an experience, which is not at the mercy of an arguement. You may not believe in the gift being for today, but you cannot categorically deny its exeistance, just as an atheist betrays his "agnosticism" by admiting the fact that he isn't privy to "ultimate knowledge".

I like how Todd Friel (who by the way is conservative, theologically) put it, "I believe that the gift oftongues is the ability to speak in languages, but at the end of the day, that's just my opinion. I may be wrong. You may be wrong. It really doesn't matter that much."


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/26 6:30Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I agree with Friel's comment. I think that way of thinking should be applied to both schools of thought on the subject by more people.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/6/26 8:26Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Randy

Quote:
Well said. By the way Jesus did speak in tongues."And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46



i don't think that this means Christ spoke in tongues. what He said was said in aramaic (i believe) and for whatever reason those words were preserved in that tongue while the others were written down in greek. i suppose because we read the scriptures in english we subconsciously assume that they spoke in english when they in fact spoke in Aramaic. nowhere in scripture that i'm aware of did Christ speak in any other tongue but aramaic, which is not to say that He couldn't but it was not necessary until after He left and sent back Holy Spirit to enable men to speak in tongues.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/26 11:54Profile
RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
David Pawson defines glossalalea as the ability to learn to speak in an unkown language in "seconds flat"



If that is what a person means when he says tongues then I will agree. I will not, however, disagree with the suggestion that the gift of tongues may be the ability to learn a language in weeks.

As for the comment on whether Christ spoke in tongues on the cross, I will simply yield to the point for though He did speak in a tongue yet it may not have been tongues.


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Randy Steinke

 2006/6/26 13:01Profile









 Re: Tongues are a sign

Why are we comparing the speaking of an unknown tongue with holiness?

It's the evidence that the holy Spirit has entered.

It's also the evidence when interpreted to convince unbelievers that God is speaking.

Everyone wants proof of these findings, read the Acts and see what happened to everyone who receives the holy Spirit. But no, you don't look there, you look at when Jesus breathed on the desciples "receive ye the holy Spirit" and you stop there.

You are like those who baptise in the name of the Father Son and holy Spirit, yet Peter and all the rest in the book of Acts baptized in the name of Jesus, "there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved" and yet we cling to titles instead of the name. You see what you want to see instead of just swallowing your pride and accept what the bible teaches and not what your church or creed teaches. Step away from the weed the devil is giving you and try some manna.

There are literally millions of people that base their whole teachings around one to two verse of scriptures, and Christ is in ALL the scriptures, not just some. We can't just pick and choose what we want and say, "there, a masterpiece". NO!!, It can't be perfect unless all the Word of God is included, even the ones that make our hair curl, or when we rub the wrong way.

Have you ever gone into a service and you find the worship is like your dragging your feet? And the minister says, "Ok, it feels like were plowing thru this folks, lets pray and command the devil to stop what he is doing". Has anyone experinced this? I have on many occasions, have you ever thought that it might be God who is the one striving against us? That He is not pleased with facial worship, He wants heart worship.

When you see those who speak in tongues, do you think that just because they speak in tongues that they have to be sinless?

WE ALL MUST BE HOLY!

Does not the word say, "IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus the righteous"

So, can those who speak in tongues fall into this bracket? I know I do many times.

I know many believers who speak in tongues and I can guarantee you that those who genuinely speak in tongues and are living in sin, DO NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES, because they feel unworthy to do so, I know I experince this far too often.

But those who do it and they are blantantly living in sin and give off the impression that they are Gods right hand, I'd question them. But any of you who see this type of person doing this should not condemn the speaking of an unknown tongue, even though it's very easy to do. But seek the baptism of the holy Spirit anyway, remember your not seeking tongues, your seeking Jesus to fill you. Tongues will come as naturally as when you were born.

If anyone is seeking the Kingdom of God, you must expect this experince and if you do, you will speak in tongues, thats a given. If your really hungry for the refreshing that comes from the presense of the Father, than get ready for it. This speaking in tongues is a stumbling block for most people.

Remember what the confusion of tongues did to those at the tower of Babel? It's the same application, it causes confusion to the carnal mind, it can't receive it. It caused a seperation. Only those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will receive whatever the Father throws at them. They don't care if it sounds, looks, or even taste wrong, they'll eat it, because they want God and all that belongs to them. Man oh man, that is what being hungry is all about, eh?

Karl

 2006/6/26 13:25





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