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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : talking in tounges???

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hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 talking in tounges???

ive read some of the threads here, but to be honest i almost get more confused. Maybe there is no simple awnser. But do you have to talk in tunges to be baptised whit the holy ghost ?? or what i meen is when you recive the baptism do you speak in tounges then? and if so do one always?

ive heard so much about this, but sometimes i see people and know of people that speak in tounges and then go light up a smoke. Now i cant understand it. But im so confused can u be baptised whit the holy ghost and dont speak in tounges? i know many who says ohh i im baptised !!
and i speak in touges.But they dont have any power it seems to me. what i meen is it seems like al they use this baptism for is to meet in church and outspeak one another in tounges.

now im no scollar but when i read the word it seems to me we recive the spirit to get power to spread the gospel.. to go out in the world...to boldly speak of jesus to everyone everywere...

now i want the baptism... i want to be filled... i want everything jesus have for me... and even if he dont have anything im glad anyway. I just want to serve him. I havent talked in tounges, ive had a "born again" experience. When i got a new heart a new mind and a new will for everything in my life...in one second i was changed. But as i understand i need this baptism to. It seems to importand to not to have. Maybe i can have a good christian life whitout it, but i want a FULL christian life.

is there any great men of god that dident speak in tounges? did they all do this? spurgeon? moody? wesley? finney? did all speak in tounges?

gods peace to you

christian


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2006/6/19 11:28Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: talking in tunges???

no one doesn't have to speak in tongues to prove he is baptized by the Lord's holy Spirit. the gift of tongues is really a lesser gift, if you want it that's fine but the best gift is prophecy. the thing with that is, while that is the best gift, when you have it, you become despised. of course Paul ultimately says that even if we have all these gifts and don't have Love then we are nothing. Also these gifts are for infant Christians because they display God's power in a tangable way but Paul says that they will cease eventually when Christ is formed in us, when that happens the very Life of Christ will flow out of us so we won't need such gifts to convince us of God's power.

We all need to be exposed to these gifts in some measure so we can have an idea of the scope of God's power, if you speak in tongues and i don't, i can't say that i don't need you because we are all the body of Christ and each part needs each other part. this is because the gifts are for ALL our benefit. God will give you whatever gifts He wants to for His work through you, i pray God have His will done in you and through you bro. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2006/6/19 12:59Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: talking in tunges???

Hi hmmhmm,

Simply put, if you have not yet been baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are in for a nice suprise. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights.

I know that the same faith that you were given to believe on the Lord Jesus, is the same faith that will lead you into 'the streams of living water' that the Father longs to give you.

The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit and He has many gifts, that are for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, that is you and I.

If you are confused about tongues, don't worry about it, I was as well. I remember sitting outside this room while all my friends who have very tactfully excluded me from such a meeting, I felt the power, some years later I was introduced to that wonderful world of the Spirit. I am glad that I did not really know too much, for what can really prepare you for what too most is indescribable...that is the presense of God.

Well, I hope that this thread doesn't go the usual way of controversy and stays on the suprise and joy that is in the Lord, to those who receive what the Father longs to give us.

In Christ,
Aeryck


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Eric John Sawyer

 2006/6/19 13:49Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

Basically, I agree with IRON. You don't have to show anything to prove you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is from God for God.

To answer your question about those who were baptized by the Holy Spirit that did not speak in tongues here are names:

John Wesley

Charles Finney

D L Moody

R A Torrey

J Wilbur Chapman

Evan Roberts

A B Earle

A T Pierson

Duncan Campbell

Leonard Ravehnill

John R Rice

J Edwin Orr

These never had a documented experience but obviously were obviously filled with the Spirit of God:

Billy Sunday

Charles Spurgeon

I have documented in a small collection, many quotes from giants of the faith dealing with this particular subject:

http://www.dyingthief.com/The_Holy_Ghost_and_the_Revival_He_Brings.doc


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Hal Bachman

 2006/6/20 18:56Profile
inastruzay
Member



Joined: 2006/5/3
Posts: 7


 Re: talking in tounges???

dear friend,

Speaking in tounges is a gift as anything else. there are many gifts that God gives, as you know a gift is not earned -- smoking or not smoking will not usually dtermine God's genorosity. Let me say however, those type of things pale in signifigance to the indwelling Spirit and will usually get dropped off as excess and of no use. There are many gifts besides speaking in tounges, this you can find in cor. 12 and 13. God can give you any gift he wants you to have when he wants you to have it--there are purposes for all the gifts.
As far as speaking in tounges -- many miss the more importatnt aspect of speaking in the spirit, walking in the spirit, living in the spirit, etc in eph. 6 paul says, let all prayer be in the spirit -- do you pray in the spirit? does you pastor preach in the spirit? basicly, this means don't do it reliougsly but in the spirit. many say speaking in tounges is speaking in the spirit, don't get me wrong I speak in tounges but I would rather speak like paul five words in the spirit in my own language -- it helps others. speaking in tounges has its place -- don't doubt it, but if you don't speak in tounges right now or ever it does not mean you are not filled w/ the holy spirit. Take a room, you say it's filled w/ chairs? then you put a lot of people in, now it's filled w/ people, then you fill it w/ air, then you fill it w/ music -- you get the point? the christian is never full but always being filled, isn't the kingdom of God exciting?!
check out col 2 6-9

I know you have seen God move in your life and continualy see the kingdom of God all around you take heart you are living john 3 3 cause no one can see it and understand unless he's been born again.

Peace my friend, I know this is long winded and hard to follow but be careful about becoming imbalanced either way about tounges or anything of God just walk w/ him and enjoy him and others -- sometimes they're fun to watch :-D


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John Grove

 2006/6/20 18:58Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re:

Quote:
Basically, I agree with IRON. You don't have to show anything to prove you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is from God for God.



Ofcourse, there would be a vast improvement in one's ability to worship God. Streams of living water pouring out of one's innermost being is bound to cause one to have certain pleasurable experiences and make certain pleasurable noises.
One might even collapse on the ground, or begin crying with joyful release or laughing a little to excitedly at discovering what it means to worship the Lord in the Spirit. It is true though that some take longer to open up to the Lord and so there might be a very tiny trickle of living water, but with some good teaching in the Scriptures, and anointed message or two, or maybe more one might start to open up in the Spirit to God...maybe not, I guess we are all so different when it comes to how we respond to the presense of the Lord. I prayed in tongues and it was as the Spirit gave me utterance, I sort of ran out of my own mental prayers and then got a whole new way of praying, or should I say fellowshipping with the Father and the Son...

His servant,
Aeryck


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Eric John Sawyer

 2006/6/24 18:29Profile









 Re: talking in tounges???

Don't let anyone tell you that when you receive the holy Spirit you don't have to speak in tongues.

You certainly do not have to speak in tongues, but when you receive the holy Spirit you will speak in tongues.

The Kingdom of God is not in your head, therefore you cannot reason away something so simple yet a lot of Christians are scared of it.

I've heard many say to justify themselves that love is the evidence, or joy etc.., these can be results of any good thing, even the world experinces joy, love, peace. But the speaking of an unknown tongue eludes those who THINK they have the truth. But because they SAY they see, their sin remaineth, I am talking about Christians.

My Mom & Dad spoke in tongues when they received the holy Spirit but never spoke again. The Apostles spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, but it doesn't say any where else that they did again, we don't hear any thing more on the subject until Paul picks it up again with "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all". This gives us reference that there are those who continue on speaking in tongues whether it be in the manner of men or of angels.

But we shouldn't be afraid of the refreshing that God has ordained.

When my spirit was down one day, the holy Spirit said, "speak in tongues for a while, refresh yourself", and I was refreshed. It was like a battery being recharged.

Someone mentioned John R Rice not speaking in tongues. I have read quotes in John Rices book he denies the speaking an in unknown tongue, so it would be natural for someone like him to NOT to speak in tongues because he doesn't believe it's for today.

Strange isn't it. Just before the LORD dies He says, "It is finished", yet we have this wierd theology that after His resurrection things that HE has established in the Church He does away with them because it was for that day and not ours.

So that tells me something about the men who have thought that way and are thinking that way today, that Paul said in, 2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

So what was old? What was before the Cross!

What is new? What came after His resurrection!

So who says anywhere that that which is new has been done away with? I only read that which is old has been put away.

Those of you who reject the speaking in an unknown tongue, you should keep silent because you really don't know what your talking about. This is one of those judge not lest you be judged issues. Look at old Wigglesworth, claimed he had the holy Ghost, argued with those who believed in it and wound up speaking it. Praise God.

I am only going to give you two scriptures one from the Old and one in the New.

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: [b]yet they would not hear.[/b] and they still are not hearing. So anyone who rebutts the speaking in an unknown tongues is someone who has not yet heard, and can claim to have the holy Spirit until your blue in the face, you ain't got it. This site talks about taking a stand on the old ways, lets stand for it all and leave the things we don't understand to the LORD, after all, He is the only one who can open or shut our understanding.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peters words in this command. Now notice this verse which Pete is saying the same thing.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you.

Remember what old Paul said, "If any man hath not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His". The Spirit of Christ and the holy Spirit is one in the same.

 2006/6/24 19:46
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
Don't let anyone tell you that when you receive the holy Spirit you don't have to speak in tongues.





Quote:
You certainly do not have to speak in tongues, but when you receive the holy Spirit you will speak in tongues.



Please prove this through scripture?

Quote:
I've heard many say to justify themselves that love is the evidence, or joy etc.., these can be results of any good thing, even the world experinces joy, love, peace. But the speaking of an unknown tongue eludes those who THINK they have the truth. But because they SAY they see, their sin remaineth, I am talking about Christians.



This is why I dont attend a pentocostal church anymore. They will rather have experience over any of the fruits of the spririt.

I have met tons of people who "speak" in tongues, and have absolutely no love, and are more deeply in sin and false teaching than people who dont.(I am not speaking about all people who speak in tongues).

Please, dont make this poor soul think that he has to speak in tongue in order to be baptized in the holy spirit. I have fallen into this deception, and all it did was result in me making weird noises at an altar, while everyone else was falling all around me. This, I have come to find out, is total blasphemy.

I am not saying that people who speak in tongues are bad, but when you make that a priority for being baptized, this falls in deception.

god bless


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/6/24 22:02Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

hw,

I was trying to answer the question of who claimed to have the baptism of the Holy Ghost who did not speak in tongues. I suppose that this statement goes against what you believe.

I respect your stand, but let me make some statements.

I do not speak in tongues, and therefore I don't claim to know what the actual experience is. As far as John R Rice goes, he believed that all the gifts were for today, but believed that tongues were foreign languages. I am not sold on either stand to be honest.

But going along with your line of thinking, you stated that if one had not spoken in tongues, they could not be authoritative on tongues. True statement. But I submit this, if you have not received a baptism of the Holy Ghost without tongues, how can you be authoritative to say it cannot happen. Especially taking into consideration the list of great men of God I submitted before.

Jesus did not speak in tongues, neither did John Baptist. So I am not discounting your experience, just asking that you not discount mine and the great men of God who have not spoken in tongues.

I will ask you this, please answer if you get a chance. Was the complete list of men I gave void of anyone who was truly baptized with the Holy Ghost?


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Hal Bachman

 2006/6/24 22:46Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

ive studied the bible... ive listend to sermons, ive talked to people, ive prayed to god. i have come to the conclusion that i havent had the baptism of the holy ghost, i know i was born again and recived the holy ghost, i felt it i knew it when it happend, surley the baptism will be an experience like this i belive, what i meen is if one has had the baptism they would know.
and i do think you can be filled whit the holy spirit and not speak in tounges, if i recive this gift from god ill accept it and praise him,
if not i will praise him anyway. The thing that disturbs me the most i must say is that i know of people that live in sin and claim to have this gift and the baptism, now i know its a gift, its nothing we can earn by works.
but still i have this dubts about some people....


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/6/24 23:39Profile





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