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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Trying to Tread Tenderly

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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

dorcas wrote:

Quote:

The thing is, if will is IN the soul, then by what can the soul be controlled?



The soul is the controler.

However, when we become saved, then it must be controled by our spirit that has been made alive.
[b]1Corinth 6:17[/b] [color=990000]But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.[/color]

Now this becomes of the subject of "death to self"
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10964&forum=35&28]in theis topicic in the: Lounge - Death to 'self'[/url]

 2006/6/23 13:08Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

You all have some excellent points, let's try to appreciate each other more each time , and ask the LORD to teach us ...till HE comes.

Soli Deo Gloria!

 2006/6/23 14:06Profile









 Re: Trying to Tread Tenderly

Quote:
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

If adultery comes from the heart, then the soul of the aduterer is indeed far from God.

Logic said
Quote:
This "inner man" is our spirit since the word heart is used in verse 17.

I don't think it's quite that simple, really. The spirit of a man is something to do with his disposition, and also, the human spirit seems to be related to life itself. Take away the spirit from a man altogether, and he - his body - is dead. The more I've tried to make sense of what the soul might be, the more I've felt it is the sum of all our actions as well as our feelings and state of being - whether in God or not.

In Ephesians 3, we again see a difference between the heart and the inner man - although I think the inner man is a much closer fit to the soul - although I also know the inner man has a spiritual quality - a spiritual reality.

16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,

17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what...'


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Yes! Walk in them. This means making the body do those things which are God's will. The heart has more to do with these decisions - where your treasure is, there [b]will[/b] your heart be... and one's will is able to choose them.

I see that choosing to do God's will is a way of loving Him with all my heart and all my soul and all my mind and strength.

In order to have this amount of focus and power to execute, my will must be subject to a higher authority than my soul.

Here is an verse to support my thesis.

1 Corinthians 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

This is a chapter about the operation of the Holy Spirit amongst the assembled saints. Clearly, a person has the final say in whether to prophesy or not. According to Paul, even the believer's [i]spirit[/i] is subject to something else within them. It seems impossible that it be their soul, wouldn't you agree, Logic, (because earlier you said the soul is subject to the spirit...)?

 2006/6/23 14:33
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

mamaluk wrote:
You all have some excellent points, let's try to appreciate each other more each time , and ask the LORD to teach us ...till HE comes.

Soli Deo Gloria!


I thought we were.
I don't read anything(attitude) into the posts accept what is being said.

 2006/6/23 14:36Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

logic,

No no, y'all great, please don't read something else into my post, I just bounced off from another forum where some got abrasive and rude a bit.

I just hope that the saints on this forum will continue to maintain the status quo (generally courteous and kind), it's easy for me too ,to fall into a not-so-godly attitude when provoked.

I really should stop viewing from that forum

peace,
mamaluk





 2006/6/23 14:55Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

dorcas wrote:

Quote:
Here is an verse to support my thesis.

1 Corinthians 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

This is a chapter about the operation of the Holy Spirit amongst the assembled saints. Clearly, a person has the final say in whether to prophesy or not. According to Paul, even the believer's spirit is subject to something else within them. It seems impossible that it be their soul, wouldn't you agree, Logic, (because earlier you said the soul is subject to the spirit...)?



Wow! this is a big subjuct; Soul, spirit, haert, what are they & which one is realy me, and what part do they play in our lives ect...

Maybe we could look at it this way based upon realiy of bussness.

I have a boss, and my boss has a boss who is also meried to the owner.

The line of authority or chain of command is this
([b]Note:[/b] not saying that my flesh is the most of who I am)
[b]Me[/b] - My flesh
[b]The company and building[/b] - My haert
[b]My boss[/b] - My soul
[b]mind[/b] - My opperations manager
[b]CEO[/b] - My spirit
[b]God[/b] - My Owner & Creator

The fleash is a lacky, does what ever it is told and gives plesure to whom comands it.

God owns it all and is the High commander & Creator. My spirit is the CEO, God and my spirit should be in constant communication. They are also merried to each other to make the bond even stronger.
However, my spirit gives all authority to the soul because he knows the company through and through, like the back of his hand.

My mind could even tell the spirit when a thing can be done because he is in charge of that opperation.
None the less, the mind is not with out boundries.

[b]Matthew 15:19[/b] [color=990000]For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.[/color]
In the company these are bad product becuase the soul is usurping authority

[b]Matthew 22:37[/b] [color=990000]Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.[/color]
Everyone in the whole chain of command must love the owner and then the company and building will be right.

 2006/6/23 15:39Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

These three are synonymous and function as one. Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Before the Spirit of Christ was born again in us, our spirit was the spirit of our father the devil. The Spirit of Christ could not be in us, He was no yet ascended and we were unable to be born again of water and the spirit. The three entities of loving God in the 10 commandments are heart, soul, mind. These three are all our emotions, will and thoughts, the soul-mind. No spirit except Satan's spirit making our soul to be the nature of him, the liar from the beginning. Then of course the body is ruled by the soul-mind.

The Spirit is spiritual, da, really we cannot see the spirit of a man or know the spirit of a man. We can know the soul of a man, by what he says, projects emotionally and what he does. The Spirit of Christ is now our Spirit for those the believe and Satan's spirit is no longer our nature to this world, but by the Spirit of Christ that is in us we are no longer of this world but we are seated in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus, we cannot see the Heavenly Places yet as we cannot see the Spirit of Christ, but we are to believe, know, and reckon ourselves in this state in Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Without the Spirit of Christ now being our Spirit the old spirit of Satan our father is the ruling spirit of the soul and body.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Spirit of Christ in us does signify His sufferings and glory. That is the Hope of Glory Paul speaks of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

Spirit=Christ, soul, heart, and mind and body= me. The baptized into me Holy Spirit works in the soul, heart, and mind which rules the body.
The work of Christ is "finished" and His Spirit is now my Spirit, it is now the Life of Christ in me. "The life I know live I live by the Faith of Son of God". What is Faith? "The substance of things not seen".

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/6/24 3:59Profile









 Re: Trying to Tread Tenderly

Hi Phillip,

You have picked up on an aspect I desisted from posting yesterday, namely, some Bible verses about the spirit of a man.

You said:

Quote:
Without the Spirit of Christ now being our Spirit the old spirit of Satan our father is the ruling spirit of the soul and body.

Here, I disagree that the Spirit of Christ is battling with the old spirit. I realise that can happen in a professing Christian, and perhaps this is what the many who say victory over sin is not possible, are describing - a real spiritual battle.

I do also believe we all who believe in victory over sin, have spiritual battles, but, they are different from what would fit in your quote.

This I say all because if we have been baptised into [b]His death[/b] by the Holy Spirit, then that old spirit in us [b]is dead[/b].

To believe this is matter of simple faith in the first instance, but also, I acknowledge that it [b]is[/b] tied up with an acknowledgement to God by the believer that he or she really has made an agreement with Him, to be dead to sin.

Once that cost has been counted, and the death of Christ entered into, regeneration can really take over. Still though - and I think it's to this you refer, really (because I know you understand about dying to self) - we do experience some old fruit from the old tree. Again then, it is a matter of faith to believe that God [i][b]has[/i][/b] laid the axe to the root by the Spirit, and it is only a matter of time before the signs of the old life will wither and visibly, tangibly, experientially [b]DIE[/b]. Hallelujah!

You also said:
Quote:
The Spirit is spiritual, da, really we cannot see the spirit of a man or know the spirit of a man.

Here are the scriptures I found on this. I think you'll agree they seem to be saying there are certain things we [i]can[/i] know about a person, and these are what God calls [i]spiritual[/i] qualities. We should learn from this.

I think some of them tie in with what Jesus said about 'Take my yoke upon you and learn of ME, for I am meek and lowly of heart and you will find rest to your souls.' If Jesus separated soul and heart, then I don't see how we can disagree.

We can learn something about God's view of 'spirit' by looking in Proverbs.

Proverbs 11:13
A talebearer reveals secrets,
But he who is of a [b]faithful spirit[/b] conceals a matter.

Proverbs 15:13
A merry heart makes a cheerful countenance,
But by sorrow of the heart the [b]spirit is broken[/b].

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction,
And a [b]haughty spirit[/b] before a fall.

Proverbs 16:19
Better to be of a [b]humble spirit[/b] with the lowly,
Than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Proverbs 16:32
He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty,
And [u]he who rules[/u] his spirit than he who takes a city.

Proverbs 18:14
The spirit of a man will [b]sustain him in sickness[/b],
But who can bear a [b]broken spirit[/b]?

Proverbs 20:27
The [b]spirit of a man is the lamp of the LORD,
Searching all the inner depths of his heart[/b].

Proverbs 25:28
Whoever has [b]no rule over his own spirit[/b]
Is like a city broken down, without walls.


It seems the spirit of a man has certain qualities which he has some control over, in the way the word is used above..... something to do with attitude - more than feelings - although a spirit can be haughty, humble, hurt or out of control (rather than uncontrollable). I still tend to think this has something to do with choices made by the heart and the execution of decisions being borne out by the will putting them into action.

I'm surer now, the soul [i]picks up the tab[/i], rather than controls these.


Logic,

I need to sit quietly with your analogy of the business model, and see if I can make it work with scripture. Haven't had time to do that yet but will try to respond accurately, afterwards.

 2006/6/24 7:48
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

dorcas,

You should consider writing a book ! :) Praise GOD !

I'm amazed to see how often you deliver your thoughts in such a 'gentil' manner.


Thank you and thank you too Phillip

enjoy reading your posts,
mml

 2006/6/24 10:10Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Linn,


What a wonder we are. The old pulls we have from our old master, from his learning and teaching the things of this world are like a body pull, our old task master was a liar from the beginning. When we are saved, the Spirit is willing, for it is the Spirit of Christ but the old soul-mind that governs the flesh is still in its realm of our old spiritual nature which was governed by Satan.

Now that we have a new birthed Spirit, that is the Spirit of Christ that is now born again in us, which is the only way we can get rid of the old nature, the nature of our old father the devil. With this New Spirit, now we have to learn or I should say relearn a whole new way of life. The Life of Christ in us the Hope of Glory. That is where the Holy Spirit comes in and He is now our teacher, which in John, Jesus speaks of many times especially in John 14,15,16,17. The Comforter sent from God by the request of Christ's prayer to the Father, which is answered. We do have the Holy Spirit baptized into our soul-mind and He is helping us renew our mind to the Mind of Christ. It does not happen overnight, in fact it probably won't happen in our whole life time here on this earth, but take care He the Holy Spirit our Teacher Comforter is no longer with us but in us and He will be in us forever. WoW! Through out all eternity we have the Holy Spirit to show us even the things of God that will take all of eternity to understand This Love that God our Father has for us.

Why do we fail when we have a new birthed Spirit in us that is the Spirit of Christ who is now our new nature, not of this world but of Heavenly Places seated at the Right Hand of the Father in Christ Jesus, we fail because of old body pulls, another WoW! Now the complete new Nature of our Father in the Seed of His Son is birthed in us by His Spirit that is now our new birthright, son's of God. How can we a most miserable, sinful, no good, forgetting about God, and only concerned about our selves being "as god's," ever understand this Grace of the Father. It is a long and tedious work, but well worth it and God has promised He will never give up on us, especially now that we have all that He is as The Father of His Son born again in us, who now have Jesus Christ as our own, both birthed and legally adopted and fellow heirs with Jesus Christ to the Father's Family. More WOW!

New life in Christ, in me, in Spirit now even living as me by living as Christ, now not later. We are still learning this new Gospel that Paul said was the Mystery. The Mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory. This dispensation, or stewardship given to Paul is now revealed in the children of God. Paul calls the Born Again experience that Christ said must happen before we can become son's of God, Paul called it the Mystery which Paul says he did not learn it form man or was taught it by man, but it must be revealed by the Holy Spirit that Christ is in us. Again as I use it so many times because it is so hard to understand, by revelation we have been given: each individual person who believes, Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Our life is Christ which is new life By the Spirit of Christ now being our Spirit a new Creature in Christ Jesus. Now the Soul and Mind and will and emotions can be renewed to the new mind we have, the mind of Christ. Spirit saved, Soul being saved and Body will be saved. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/6/24 21:30Profile





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