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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Practical Wisdom For Calvinists*

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Combat_Chuck
Member



Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

Logic,

I do not necessarily believe in eternal security at this point in time... But I must assert it sounds to me like Aleister Crowley was a "false convert". Just because his father was Christian did not make Aleister a Christian worth a hill of beans. Often preachers kids are notorious for being false converts.

I'm reminded of the time the pharisees mentioned they had Abraham as their father... Whoop-dee-doo! ;-) (MAtt.3)

Overall, to base doctrine on the testimony of one single historical figure is silly.

Adam


_________________
Combat Chuck

 2006/7/2 1:46Profile
CaptainFant
Member



Joined: 2006/7/2
Posts: 4


 Re:

i'd have to agree, just like a lot of people who have Christian parents etc and say they were a Christian it doesn't mean they are, eg the guy that Ray Comfort had the Atheist debate with said he was a Christian for 20 years and went to Church etc then realised it was all false. Its obvious he was never a Christian. The list of people could go on.

 2006/7/2 6:31Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

heya guys concerning the following verse, who is it that turn the grace of God into lasciviousness?

(Jude 1:4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

God bless u all!

And also to anyone else i would like to ask the following question, if we deny God will He deny us?

ciao

 2006/7/2 8:29Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
We can wlk out of his hand.



If we come into His hand by being born of the Spirit, how do we walk out of His hand? How do we choose to be "unborn of the Spirit?

What love would it be for a FAther to say, Yes, my child must love me and stay in my hand of his own accord therefore if my little child lets go of my hand and runs into the fire I will not prevent it?

This is ludicras.

God's love is not seen in His allowing us to perish. His love is seen in His keeping us. "They shall never perish and no one is able to snatch them out of My Hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are One."

Eternal Life is not a destination we are headed to if we keep on the right road. Eternal Life is the Life of God which is in the Son and which enters into us when we believe into the Lord Jesus. Eternal Life is the Life of God of which we are born when we believe and it is not something that we can lose as we have become "one spirit' with the Lord (1 Cor 6:17).

A believer has been regenerated and has been born of the Spirit of God, has the Life of God and the nature of God within him and will never perish.

"For God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us'. Here is God's Love demonstrated. Where is our choice in this? WE did not say, "Lord, send Christ to die for us". WE did not say, "Lord redeem me".

Rather God sent His Son into the world to save sinners. And He died on the Cross to redeem us. And God sought us by the Spirit to woo us, to convict us, and to reveal Christ to us and to draw us to Him. And God enabled us to believe into Him and regenerated us and made us children of God with His Life and His Nature.

As Children of God with the Life of God, God as a loving Father keeps us, diciplines us, nourishes us, cherishes us, and will not let us go, nor will He alow us to perish. And all believers will finally be saved though many will suffer loss and dicipline at the Lord's judgement seat.

God initiated our salvation and God will complete our salvation body, soul, and spirit.

Graftedbranch

 2006/7/2 8:50Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Did you know that Aleister Crowley was saved?



On what do you base your conclusion this man was saved? If you consider being "saved" as some act of commitment you perform and maintaining salvatin is based on maintaining this "commitment" then yes, one could lose it.

But salvation is not something we do, it is something God does. It is God convicting us of our lost condition apart from Christ. It is God revealing Christ to us by the Spririt through the gospel, It is God drawing us to Himself and making Christ desirable to us and drawing us to turn to Him in repentance, and it is God who gives us faith to believe into Him.

And as a result of this faith, God applies the Blood of Christ and enters into ur dead spirit regenerating us as flame ignites a lifeless wick.

And God takes up His abode in our regenerated spirit forever, we are made members of Christ, members of His body, and we are joined to Him organically forever.

To be "saved" is not some thing we did way back when by praying a prayer or making some commitment or taking up bible reading or church attendance. To be saved is to be born of God. It is to partake of Christ, to be regenerated with His Life and to be made a child of God, "the Spirit Himself witnessing with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also..."

Graftedbranch

 2006/7/2 9:09Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Practical wisdom and diabolical word craft

Quote:
2. Be very careful about accepting entire systems of theology (e.g., Covenant theology, Dispensationalism). Most often, the truth is found somewhere in the middle – and usually, a system of theology contains a part of the truth, but not the whole of it. It appears that God has spread His truth throughout various theological traditions (Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.) so that we might not put our trust in men or institutions, but in the testimony of God’s Word.



([i]Edit- Best to make a distinction between the quote above and what follows, was trailing off the implication of 'systems of thought' or "theology" as to the remainder here[/i])

Problem with phraseology of this sort (OSAS) is it's intrinsic round hole\square peg abilities. It is a poor way of expressing a truth and the mindlessness of a catch phrase like OSAS is the way it is codified right along side the now popular evangelical magic formula of [i]saying[/i], 'repeating' a "sinners prayer", completing the transaction and rubber stamping it with "OSAS" go on one's happy way, nothing to be concerned about, '[i]Don't let anyone tell you otherwise[/i]'.

The only salvation there is, is not by transaction, but by birth. New birth. Have made mention of this before but to tell a regenerated, re-born soul 'once saved, always saved' is the height of stupidity and absurdity, it is on the level of telling a starving man that he is hungry.

Would posit it in the opposite or perhaps the negative; If one must be so concerned whether he or she is mindful about their 'eternal security' then perhaps it would be good to meditate long and hard on;

[i]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; [u]prove your own selves[/u]. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?[/i] 2Co 13:5

This 'doctrine' is reeking all kinds of havoc in this day by putting the cart before the horse. The amount and level of presumption being promoted, accepted and taught today is staggering. Who would dare to be so audacious as to [i]pronounce[/i] unequivocally to another human spirit 'You are saved' using these modern methods?

The old timers had it correct when they spoke of those [i]being saved[/i] as in [i]process[/i]. It is ultimately the exact opposite; Those who have been saved will know and will be [u]telling us[/u] what incredible change has taken place. If one hasn't been arrested with the fact that everything has become new, different and beyond even ones articulation, the whole inner disposition radically altered, a sorrow for sin and want of repentance, a love of God and seeking after Him with all the heart ... We don't need [i]fruit inspectors[/i], fruit is evident, change is evident, either one is changed or not changed, there is no muddy middle of half-born souls.

Surely there is a caveat for a new believer grappling with the dying of the natural and the growth of the spiritual, for their assurance and misplaced fears and the bombardment of the world, the flesh and the devil. Is it not to these that the verses of the Lord are for, those mentioned earlier? And are they not those that speak to the heart that already has begun to gasp and pant after Gods heart, to point them to, not for us to use Willy-nilly as a balm for every conceivable mis-construct crafted out of human empathy and emotion.

It is a wretched and diabolical lie to assuage the guilty and unregenerate soul with a crafty catch all-catch phrase the way it is used predominantly in this hour and why it ought to just be done away with wholesale.


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Mike Balog

 2006/7/2 10:11Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Graftedbranc wrote:

Quote:
On what do you base your conclusion this man was saved? If you consider being "saved" as some act of commitment you perform and maintaining salvatin is based on maintaining this "commitment" then yes, one could lose it.

I am just atempting to show the path that this doctrin will lead some people.
Get saved then live like the devil, becaus Always saved.
Quote:
But But salvation is not something we do, it is something God does.



Think of our salvation not thing but as a Person, and arelationship.

[b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]Now this is eternal life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]
Eternal life means to know Jesus.
To know Him is to love Him.
Don't get me wrong, Salvation is [b]VERY[/b] dificult to loose, never the less, people have divorced God, left him because of suffering comes, or persecution because of the word.
Eternal life means to know Jesus.
To know Him is to love Him.
Don't get me wrong, Salvation is VERY dificult to loose, never the less, people have divorced God, left him because of suffering comes, or persecution because of the word.

But if it is something God does,
The action is saving us from HIS wrath.

 2006/7/2 14:28Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

Dear brother, we are saved from sin, don't doubt it. I give to you the very words of God "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21

And now beside all that, if we make our focus JESUS CHRIST, and keep our eyes fixed on Him alone, we will not have to worry about sinning but becoming more like Him.

And it's no longer I doing the work but Christ that lives in me. If I have presented my body as a living sacrifice and like David pray "...bind the sacrifice with cords, even to the horns of the altar." Psalm 118:27 and I give myself wholly to the Lord so that I am not in any way my own, I will not sin because IT IS CHRIST THAT LIVES IN AND THROUGH ME AND CHRIST WILL NOT SIN. "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9 In the verse previous to that one it states that the work of Christ is to destroy the work of the devil which is sin. So if sin is still a part of your life, the work of Christ has not been done in you.

There is such freedom in that: the grace of God IS sufficient, He Is able to keep me from falling (Jude 24), He alone must do the work for I can not, I am dead.

All praise to Christ alone. God bless you all my brethern.

Victor

 2006/7/2 14:50Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

vico wrote:

Quote:


Dear brother, we are saved from sin, don't doubt it. I give to you the very words of God "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21


We are saved from the Wrath of God and Jesus delivered us from sin to His Kindom.

Jesus is Greek for Joshua or Yehoshúa.
Hebrew(יְהוֹשֻׁעַ "Yeho/YHVH is help/delivers

The word "saves" is a bad translation.

 2006/7/2 15:03Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

W_D_J_D wrote:
funny that Leonard Ravenhill says in one of his sermons "Im not to sure if Calvin will be there, (heaven) but thats a different story." LOL



I don't know for a fact, but I would assume he was saying that because of what happened with Michael Servetus, not because he believed in perseverance of the saints.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/7/2 15:10Profile





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