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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Holiness or emotionalism?

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 Holiness or emotionalism?

I am concerned about some of the posts that I have read recently. I will not mention the ones that disturb me but I think I see the problem. First let me establish that there are some very tender hearted and beloved brothers and sisters on this web site of which I read their posts almost exclusively. But everyone on here is unique in his\her own way.

Also, let me say that I truly believe that most of the ones who come here and post on a regular basis are truly in persuit of the same thing. A closer walk with God and a better understanding of the Word. Thats what christians hunger for and desire.

Having said that let me say this. Holiness is not something that we can ever obtain on our own. There is only one thing that is pleasing to God and that's his Son. Our holiness is Jesus and Jesus alone. Once we slip out of the realm of grace and slip into the realm of works it starts to poison our mind as if we can reach some kind of spiritual plateau that will make us pure and holy without the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

There is only one thing that pleases God. HIS SON. Quit trying to take his place. Just trust and obey. The mental torment and anguish you feel and the pain that you are causing yourself is because you will not just relax and let God take the wheel. We work ourselves up into an emotional fenzy trying to obtain this spirituality that cannot come through emotionalism. YOU CANNOT DO IT MY FRIEND. LET GO AND LET GOD!!!!!!
J-bird

By the way

Been there done that!

 2006/6/13 19:50
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re: Holiness or emotionalism?

J-Bird,

I am picking up what you are throwing down. Thanks for that!

Murray


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Murray Beninger

 2006/6/13 20:35Profile









 Re:

I'm speaking from experience. Jesus said "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". The problem is we want to work HARD. How many strongholds could be brought down by a simple prayer? How many mountains climbed and walls scaled through a simple prayer? Just asking and receiving. How many lives changed and people saved just by humbling ourselves and asking the Lord. "Ye have not because ye ask not". Peace, comes through the Saviour. Loves comes through Jesus. Justification comes by grace through faith in Jesus. Forgiveness, by the blood of Jesus. How many ministries have been fueled by fear? How many minds twisted and polluted by a works based salvation?
J-bird

 2006/6/13 22:51
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Guess a few of us have been this route. I was talking to someone about the lack of salvations in the church. I said we are trying too hard! So he said what are we to do, just sit back and fold our arms? Well you know what? I think we need to do just that! Well, if we fold our arms, God can move. But, if God folds His arms, we are in trouble! He just let's us run around and burn ourselves out, and when we have, and look to Him in prayer, then he can move. I have seen that happen. Like it has been said, let go and let God. And He will. God bless.

 2006/6/14 4:28Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Emotionalism is defined as the tendency to display emotion freely or to rely on or place too much value on emotion.

I can remember as a kid going to holiness churches quite often and although I was young I couldn't deny the presence of God and the incredible conviction of sin. As I got older and wiser (in my own eyes), I said this holiness stuff is about emotionalism. It's all about feeling a certain way.

In retrospect, this lie I created gave me an excuse not to seek holiness. To use a phrase from the game of Monopoly I often played as a child, this was my "Get Out of Holiness" card.

As Jesus began to draw my heart after years of rebellion, I substituted emotionalism for holiness. It works something like this. I'll go to church and I'll feel bad about my sin and confess it and/or I'll feel good about Jesus and praise his name but I won't truly repent.

The emotionalism rampant in much of church is simply an excuse to not repent. I wasn't much different than most I knew but as the Holy Spirit began to expose this, I was heartbroken. I was undone and began to repent.

As Jesus has been removing these vile things from my heart as I repent and plead his blood, I have noticed an unexplainable joy in my spirit and freedom to worship him in spirit and truth. He is changing my heart and I don't say this with any pride in my heart but I just say thank you Jesus for what you're doing in my life. The fruit of the Spirit begins to manifest itself as I follow Him. It's a wonderful thing to be given over to Christ.

It's not about trying harder. That will get you nothing but death, which is the purpose of the law to get us to the end of ourselves but the blood of Jesus delivers from sin but it requires that I exercise faith.

In the revival hymn Leonard Ravenhill ask the question "The question isn't were you challenged. The question is were you changed?"

I think this is the real question to ask ourselves. The question is whether or not we're really new creatures in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?)

Note that the question is directed to ourselves and it's something to consistently take to the prayer closet.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2006/6/14 14:36Profile









 Re:

Thank you for sharing.

This seems to be the area that the enemy likes to attack me the most. My weak spot you can say. Hairs too long. Can't wear shorts, even when it's 110 degrees outside and the humidity level is at 110%. Did'nt pray long enough. Did'nt read my bible for long enough. Did'nt study long enough. Was'nt nice enough to that guy. Was'nt humble enough. Was'nt emotional enough. Did'nt sing loud enough. Did'nt mean it with my heart enough. Did'nt pray loud enough. Was'nt spiritual enough. I'm drawing too much attention to myself. Said amen too loud. Did'nt say amen enough. Did'nt say amen loud enough. My heart was'nt in it enough. I was too short with her. Was too loud to her. Did'nt smile big enough. Was'nt holy enough. Did'nt preach long enough. Did'nt preach loud enough. Was'nt mean enough. Was'nt loving enough. The Holy Spirit was'nt real enough. Was'nt annointed enough. Should of prayed longer. Shirts too bright. I look too vain. LOL

:-P
And it just goes on and on. Until, I just have to surrender it all to my Lord. Thank you Jesus, for PEACE!

 2006/6/14 22:33
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Holiness or emotionalism

Great post

Quote:
The emotionalism rampant in much of church is simply an excuse to not repent.



Think you are on to something there Ed.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/14 23:36Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hello...

This is such an interesting discussion -- and very relevant at this time in Church history. I have seen so many churches that have mistaken emotionalism as a "move of God." While I believe that true moves of God are usually accompanied by emotional responses, I have more often seen people attempt to replicate a move of God by treading into emotionalism.

I used to attend a Church where the pastor seemed to almost demand jumping, tears, or other emotional aspects from the congregation. In his words, God couldn't "move" until we showed Him that we were "serious" in such displays of "praise and worship." In my opinion, this amounted to a sort of spiritual "rain dance." But no matter how much a person danced, I don't think that it ever rained as a result.

On the contrary, it reminds me of the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel (I Kings 18:16-45). They shouted, danced and even shed blood for the sake of grabbing the attention of their "god." But Elijah simply prayed -- and God answered by fire. When the nation needed rain -- Elijah simply prayed. God answered with rain. God isn't concerned with our display of emotions. He simply wants our hearts freely given to Him in truth.

Quote:
This seems to be the area that the enemy likes to attack me the most. My weak spot you can say. Hairs too long. Can't wear shorts, even when it's 110 degrees outside and the humidity level is at 110%. Did'nt pray long enough. Did'nt read my bible for long enough. Did'nt study long enough. Was'nt nice enough to that guy. Was'nt humble enough. Was'nt emotional enough. Did'nt sing loud enough. Did'nt mean it with my heart enough. Did'nt pray loud enough. Was'nt spiritual enough. I'm drawing too much attention to myself. Said amen too loud. Did'nt say amen enough. Did'nt say amen loud enough. My heart was'nt in it enough. I was too short with her. Was too loud to her. Did'nt smile big enough. Was'nt holy enough. Did'nt preach long enough. Did'nt preach loud enough. Was'nt mean enough. Was'nt loving enough. The Holy Spirit was'nt real enough. Was'nt annointed enough. Should of prayed longer. Shirts too bright. I look too vain. LOL

This is very interesting. I have always felt that my most intimate times in prayer have been where I could finally seperate myself from such fears. I leave everything behind and simply come "naked" before the Lord. I feel that true intimacy is in realizing how needful we are of the Lord's constant covering. As a result, many of the most emotionally intimate times of prayer have not been accompanied by tears, but simply realizing that I was resting in his everlasting arms.

Thank you all for sharing this! I have been discussing this very issue with several friends from various fellowships.

:-)


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Christopher

 2006/6/15 0:15Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: it's all legalism

Quote:
This seems to be the area that the enemy likes to attack me the most….Did'nt pray long enough. Did’nt read my bible for long enough. Did'nt study long enough. Was'nt nice enough to that guy. Was'nt humble enough. Was'nt emotional enough.


J-bird you summarized the nightmare of legalism quite pointedly. It hits close to home. I must admit, if I study your thoughts too deeply, I could go bananas. It gives me flashbacks.

Quote:
The emotionalism rampant in much of church is simply an excuse to not repent.


I’d like to challenge this statement, though in itself it is not incorrect. It just is not that “simply”. In other words, I doubt if many think consciously: “Well, folks, I refuse to repent so I am going to buy into this emotionalism. Since I don’t want to trust in God, I’ll trust in my emotions instead to give me a god-like experience.

From my experience, emotionalism is taught, and encouraged. Ex: God forbid if you don’t raise your hands while singing (the same verse for the 10th time) It means you are rebelling against the Spirit. You are resisting him. And who wants to be the only one “OBVIOUSLY” not in the Spirit.

Emotionalism is just another face of legalism. Whenever our eyes turn to self instead of Christ we dull the nagging guilt by attempting to redeem ourselves and EARN God’s approval (or really, man’s approval, right?) We’ll grab on to those positive and necessary qualities: being more expressive about our faith, holiness, separation, etc and turn it into a cult of its own. And this is what you get:
Quote:
... a sort of spiritual "rain dance."



And since these are all attempts to polish one’s outer self, the inner self remains immature, selfish, and indulgent. One never grows up! Though on Sunday morning it looks very nice.

But it's all dead, lifeless works:
Quote:
no matter how much a person danced, I don't think that it ever rained as a result.



Church is the worst place to assess anyone – even yourself, especially if you are emotionally attached to it. You need to cut the umbilical cord, and connect with God. That's the way you grow up.

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2006/6/15 8:31Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: Holiness or emotionalism?

I think one thing we forgot to do was to define holiness. 1 Pet 1v16 say be holy for I am holy. We need God's holiness, seperation from the world. Obeying the word of God irrespective of our feelings (emotions). James 4v8 says draw near to God and He will draw near to you. It does not say you will feel or see or hear anything, it just says, draw near. Luke 18 tells us of the Pharisee and the tax collector. The tax collector stood afar off, beat his breast, in sorrow, and said 'God, be merciful to me a sinner' Was he being emotional? Yes, but in the right sense of the word. He was repenting and knew that God had forgiven his sins. Psalm 32v1 says happy is the one whose sin is forgiven. And so we should be. God bless.

 2006/6/15 9:03Profile





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