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letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I struggle with depression. There are sometimes long periods that I go without dealing with it at all, and then other times I feel gripped by it. The odd thing is, if you met me, you would have a hard time believing that I hit low because I am very social around people almost all the time. I have multiple family members who have depression issues, or are bi-polar.

Someone who taught our seminary class asked if we were intro- or extravert. I had never thought it about it this way, but he said your answer should rely on where you draw your energy. I am much more positive around people, especially Christians. I almost come out of my skin when I get to hang around a brother or sister who is strong in the Lord for a long period of time.

I am sure God is using the condition for His purposes. I am greatly encouraged to hear that Spurgeon suffered from depression, also. I often fall prey to Satan singling me out and making me feel like I am weird because I am the only Christian that is the way I am. I know that this is a lie, and that I a specially designed by God for a particular reason, but I still let Satan beat me up when I get alone.

You guys are often a help with battling depression, even when we disagree.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/6/17 18:35Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: How many people here suffer from depression

I hae many friends who suffer from depression, and I come close to it regularly (put it down to having to house my wife and two children in my parents house, while their still living here, for the past 6 months while my house is being built...and there's still another 3 months left:-(). For myself, I shake it off by bringing myself through the beatitudes to see where I dropped the ball (normally it's when I don't [b]want[/b] to be merciful) and repenting, by the grace of God. Mind you, if this isn't followed by connecting with the ones I love, then this repentance is in vain.

I think the depression is one of the most enigmatic ailments of modern christendom, and "Christian" attitudes toward it an amongst the leading contributors. Depression is often equivilent to leperousy in the eyes of many christians, with sufferers concealing it, for fear of ridicule and those who don't judging sufferers as inferior (I know this statement is general, so please treat it as such). If we "cut and dry" things down to their base elements, all sickness is due to sin, but who would ever say that to the cancer sufferer? Why then should depression be treated any differently.

In an ideal world, no one would be taking any medication, but facts are that sicknesses need treating. No one would blame a cancer sufferer for taking chemotherapy, because it may be the difference between life and death. For some depression sufferers the same is true.

Yes depression is caused by selfishness, but most deression sufferers have never been shown how to regulate their emotions. This is where discipleship comes in. Most "churches" alienate and rebuke depression sufferers for having "pity parties" but won't take responsability for the solution. Loving a depression sufferer is often a case of "loving the unlovely", however for the "spiritually mature" who'll pay the price, the love received for the investment is a "costly love" the compares with the love expressed on the cross.

Unless you have the faith to cast out demons, as Jesus did with Legion, be careful of rebuking the depressed. For the most case, depression is rooted in fear, and the scripture prescribes only one thing to "cast of [b]all[/b] fear" and that thing is "perfect love". 1 Corinthians 13 describes "perfect love". For those who rebuke, have you loved with this kind of love? If not, then leave the depressed to the one who will...or better yet, become that one.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/18 4:10Profile









 Re:

Quote:
[b]This is where discipleship comes in.[/b] Most "churches" alienate and rebuke depression sufferers for having "pity parties" but won't take responsability for the solution. Loving a depression sufferer is often a case of "loving the unlovely", however for the "spiritually mature" who'll pay the price, the love received for the investment is a "costly love" the compares with the love expressed on the cross.


be careful of rebuking the depressed. For the most case, depression is rooted in fear, and the [b]scripture prescribes only one thing to "cast of all fear" and that thing is "perfect love".[/b] 1 Corinthians 13 describes "perfect love". For those who rebuke, have you loved with this kind of love? If not, then leave the depressed to the one who will...or better yet, become that one.

Aaron, I have deliberately connected the statement in bold, to the one after it, rather than before, where I think you meant it. That's because you have expressed beautifully, and with just enough impatience, something the Lord has been showing me of how His love [i][b]works[/b][/i].

I believe that if the maturer Christians can leave themselves behind for the immature, and validate the life of God in those who are apparently 'unlovely', that the unlovely will become lovelier, and, knowing they are loved IN FACT by fellow-believers, will be more able to follow their example of loving others..... which is to them, discipleship..... isn't it......?

1 John 4:12

No one has seen God at any time.

[b]If we love one another

God abides in us[/b]

and His love has been perfected

in us.


This is perfect love casting out fear, in action.

 2006/6/18 4:42









 Re:

Quote:

If we "cut and dry" things down to their base elements, all sickness is due to sin, but who would ever say that to the cancer sufferer? Why then should depression be treated any differently.



?? Sin or sins?

Quote:
In an ideal world, no one would be taking any medication, but facts are that sicknesses need treating. No one would blame a cancer sufferer for taking chemotherapy, because it may be the difference between life and death. For some depression sufferers the same is true.



When it becomes clinical that is so but cancer is of the body, depression is of the mind. Which one demands a spiritual solution?

Quote:
Yes depression is caused by selfishness, but most deression sufferers have never been shown how to regulate their emotions.



But for the Christian should this be the case? You must mean that most Christians don't know how to handle "self" --- as in crucifying it.

Orm



 2006/6/18 5:52









 Re:

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
A friend of mine who is dynamic in her walk. She is a walking encouraging machine. Her faith is in action, not works and she is an example in the community. Yet in her weakness, she finds herself being checked into the psychatric ward of the hospital. Why? She has told me that she has a disorder in that she can't sleep for days perhaps weeks. She goes to the hospital because there she knows she'll get the sleep she needs, there she'll sleep for a week. This is what she told me, but I just heard recently from a friend of mine that she told him that her husband is driving her crazy.

So there are multiple forms of depression, some are spiritual and some are food related, not getting the proper nutrition.

I have looked at dreaming Joseph how he spent all those years in prison. People not understanding him, and misunderstanding him. I know what that is like, it's frustrating to no end. You can't speak for fear of being misunderstood, so we stay silent. But when the reason comes, man oh man the wieght is lifted, you see why.

Jesus was depressed in the garden, but prayed and continued to pray. When He was about to die, He felt the rejection from the Father, as the sin bearer became seperated outside the camp. But when it was over, when the reason why comes, the joy that was set before Him, you endure anything and everything.

I think of Jeremiah sinking in the pit of dispair, we think that we would have rejoiced, maybe, maybe not. He had a whole nation against him, he stood before Kings, princes, nobles only to have them laugh him to scorn, put down, knocked down, spat upon. He was an insult to their word of faith thinking that all is well and all shall be well.

Nothing is new under the sun.

Karl





This post should be placed in front of us each morning to remind us we aren't unique and we all have a responsibilty. We all need to be mindful of the conditions that surround us and cry out to God in the behalf of others who need our intercessory prayers. Thats the least we can you when alone with ourselves. May Father impart to us all dispositions as a "Praying Hyde" as we awaken from our sleep.

Thanks, Karl.

:-(rm

 2006/6/18 6:05









 Re: How many people here suffer from depression

Quote:
Aaron said: No one would blame a cancer sufferer for taking chemotherapy, because it may be the difference between life and death. For some depression sufferers the same is true.

Ormly said: When it becomes clinical that is so but cancer is of the body,

Please could you say how you are [u]defining[/u] clinical depression?

Quote:
depression is of the mind. Which one demands a spiritual solution?

Depression is a poor name for a [u]physical condition[/u] which affects the mind.

This is not to say that there are no spiritual connections, but, the real changes which take place in the neuro-chemistry (and biochemistry of the rest of the body) cause changes in how the person is feeling, to the extent that they are no longer thriving, in what could be called clinically [i][b]health[/b][/i].

Would you say that a person who is experiencing the neuro-chemical changes which cause appetite, when food is needed, a 'spiritual' condition? I don't think so. Yet, if you don't give that person food, a new set of biochemical changes set in, to try to help the person live without food. If still no food, there are more.

The same goes for all the normal functions of the body - whether thirst, core temperature control, sleep, ... and so on. In any one of these, not managed properly at an early stage, there is the possibility of what is loosely called 'depression' affecting a person's mood and ability to function normally.

People who experience trauma, bereavement, childbirth, anxiety, surgery, physical exhaustion due to war, or otherwise chronically unhealthy living situations - both emotionally and physically unhealthy - or physical conditions which hamper their normal living potential ........ all these could experience depression - and it's not spiritual in origin - at least, their spiritual state aka their relationship with God, may be fine.

It can be grossly over-simplifying the individual's need, to suggest a 'spiritual solution' is all that is required.... further, to say 'Which one demands a spiritual solution?' as if spiritual solutions are always clear to either the person with the depression, or, to those observing that person, is a cop-out.

If there is 'a spiritual solution', and that is ALL that is needed, then there should be no condemnation of that person's depression, and if they are physically debilitated because of it, Christians should not be as quick as they are, to feel they don't need to be burdened by the physical things with which that person needs to be helped. There is far too much of the 'they brought it on themselves - let them sort it out' mentality amongst Christians.

And if the person does not need a spiritual solution, then they still need love and acceptance in their depressed state, and not to be made to feel they are a failure..... because they can't smile readily enough or have no energy to take part in (the many) church activities (which if they did, no-one would need to bear their honesty about being depressed).

What I'm trying to say, in this post, is that the physical reality of depression needs to be determined and acknowledged, before an appropriate course of 'therapy', can be prescribed. And still, it will always take time for a person to grow back into long-lasting health, remembering that all their triggers are primed to descend into depression more quickly, than the person's who has never been pressed in this direction.

Nothing I've said above, takes account of those people for whom depression is an aspect of a mental illness, which simply does require appropriate drug therapy.

Now, I believe strongly in the healing of the mind, regardless of the cause of its need for healing, [u]and, I've experienced it[/u], but, it did something completely different for me than fix the physical signs of depression which I experienced for many years due to childhood trauma.

 2006/6/18 8:30









 Re:

Quote:
Please could you say how you are defining clinical depression?



Irreversible brain disorder requiring meds to function.



:-(

 2006/6/18 11:52









 Re: How many people here suffer from depression

Ormly said:

Quote:
Irreversible neurological[?] brain disorder requiring meds to function.

First, thanks.

But..... hmmm.... You surprise me. I thought you believe in healing, by your suggestion that there may be spiritual solutions? Or were you meaning simple demonic aggression, as the reason that 'a spiritual solution' is all that's needed?

Sorry to give you the third degree. Let me say I've read many of your posts, and find we are on the same wavelength much of the time. I'm not trying to [i]be[/i] hostile, but so many people - and Christians - have trouble working out how to deal with depression - that it seems important to demonstrate in this thread, that there are some Christians who do understand the remedy is not as straightforward as praising the Lord anyway, or of giving oneself a shake, or of more sleep or regular mealtimes.

I agree there are irreversible conditions which have associated with them, a level of depression which requires to be treated with meds, at least for a season, but, ever the optimist, I believe there can be real healing from most conditions - even bio-chemical ones. But, I also recognise I've had a very unusual opportunity to appropriate deep healing from the Lord, because I was able to make it my priority and I wasn't, eventually, willing to let myself be harassed by outward circumstances - though they harassed me for some years - enough to show me there is more to mental health than taking meds or not taking meds, (what I call) hit-and-run prayers, or the presence or absence of demons of oppression.

God can just as easily communicate with a depressed person, as He can with one who is not depressed, and there should be mutual respect between Christians who recognise the Lord in each other, regardless of mental health issues.

 2006/6/18 12:13









 Re:

Quote:
But..... hmmm.... You surprise me. I thought you believe in healing, by your suggestion that there may be spiritual solutions? Or were you meaning simple demonic aggression, as the reason that 'a spiritual solution' is all that's needed?

Sorry to give you the third degree. Let me say I've read many of your posts, and find we are on the same wavelength much of the time. I'm not trying to be hostile, but so many people - and Christians - have trouble working out how to deal with depression - that it seems important to demonstrate in this thread, that there are some Christians who do understand the remedy is not as straightforward as praising the Lord anyway, or of giving oneself a shake, or of more sleep or regular mealtimes.



Thank you for kind reply and its no third degree I feel from you.

Firstly I believe depression is a result of anger and diappointment; the ingredients for a nervous breakdown. In other words without those two components, depression wouldn't exist. Can the anger and disppointment be psychosomatic or induced by a heredity "negative" disposition? I think so. But if it can recognized as such and the Lord be introduced into the equation at an early enough stage I believe it can be dealt with on an intimate Spiritual level and rectified more readily than if allowed to fester and feed on the self of the individual and the surrounding discomfiting circumstances. My dad came out of a really bad time of it that lasted for afew years without meds. I mean a severe breakdown. Mother was in an out without meds. In when she allowed the pressures to mount and out when worshipping the Lord in her spirit -- good Spiritual company always helped.

Depression is a horrible time of life not intended to be experienced by the one in Christ, which makes our walk in Him vitally important to be an accurate one; a walk not compromised with the world.

Hope that helps give you more understanding as to where I am in this thing.

:-)rm

 2006/6/18 18:03
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
?? Sin or sins?


Both.
Quote:
When it becomes clinical that is so but cancer is of the body, depression is of the mind. Which one demands a spiritual solution?



To kill two birds with one stone, I prefer not to refer to "extreme sadness" as "depression" as it tends to water down "clinical depression" in the minds of those who cannot distinguish between the two. Clinical depression is a neurological condition which requires medical treatment.

Quote:
But for the Christian should this be the case? You must mean that most Christians don't know how to handle "self" --- as in crucifying it.



"Self" [b]is[/b] "handled" by "crucifixion" (Gal 2:20; John 3:30)


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/19 7:06Profile





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