O Krispy you opened up the can of Liberal worms with this post hope you saw it coming and are prepared to deal with it, hey better you than me this might be another one of those Marriage, Divorce, and ReMarriage.. Toward a Biblical Perspective threads.
Yea, well I'm packing the family up tomorrow and headed out of town for a couple weeks for a much needed vacation... Nothing like stirring the pot and then taking off! LOL
| 2006/6/8 11:44|
If we follow the logic of some people here we should just hand him a tract and invite him to church and let him go free and pray that he gets saved.
| 2006/6/8 11:45||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
i don't have t.v. any more so i didn't know about this till i signed on...interesting viewpoints from everyone and krispy stirs the pot and dashes off :-P
at the end of the day it seems to me the die because we are sinners. the question is do we die in sin, or in Christ? We must also consider what things which happen to us individually or corperately are judgements from God lest we kick against the goards of His will rather than fall on our faces and repent. we know full well judgment begins in the House of the Lord.
let us all consider prayerfully the mercy the Lord shows us each day for our own transgressions and remember that were it not for God's grace and mercy, every one of us could be as the heathen, believing doctrines of demons and worshipping satan in one way or another. perhaps we may be more compelled to share the gospel to His glory?
| 2006/6/8 12:02||Profile|
As Ray Comfort would say...IF somebody rapes your MOM, beats her, burns her body, what should the punishnment be? $5.00 fine, slap on the wrist, or FULL PUNISHMENT!!??
You answer this with an honest heart.
The terrorists are killing sons and daughters of moms and dads!!
| 2006/6/8 13:12||Profile|
| Re: Romans 13|
It seems that there is such misunderstanding in this world from well meaning Christians. Nations have a right to defend themselves. America was attacked by militant Islam, who wants nothing more than to destroy us, and Western Civilization in it's entirety and replace it with Islam and Sharia law.
[b][color=0000FF]Romans Chapter 13 offers understanding about Nations, their right to defend themselves, and their right to go to war, and carry the Sword, and bear arms AND TO RESPOND AS A REVENGER TO EXECUTE WRATH UPON THOSE THAT DO EVIL.[/color][/b]
1. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3. FOR RULERS ARE NOT A TERROR TO GOOD WORKS, BUT TO THE EVIL. WILT THOU THEN NOT BE AFRAID OF THE POWER? DO THAT WHICH IS GOOD, AND THOU SHALT HAVE PRAISE OF THE SAME:
4.FOR HE (Government, [our Military]) IS THE MINISTER OF GOD TO THEE FOR GOOD. BUT IF THOU DO THAT WHICH IS EVIL, BE AFRAID; [b][color=0033FF]FOR HE BEARETH NOT THE SWORD IN VAIN: FOR HE IS THE MINISTER OF GOD, A REVENGER TO EXECUTE WRATH UPON HIM THAT DOETH EVIL.[/color][/b]
5. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7. [b] [color=0033FF]Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.[/color][/b]
As Christians, we are not only "Christian Soldiers" that are fighting a "Spiritual Battle" as individuals while alive on this earth, we are also part of a Nation that has been attacked and have the God given right to destroy those that would attack us. Our Government has a God given duty to respond to this threat and destroy it, wherever it is on the Globe. God has given Governments the right to bear the sword. When we are in the Military, we are not acting as individuals, but as part of the Soverign Nation that we belong to, as part of the Government that represents us as a Nation.
| 2006/6/8 16:05|
When we are in the Military, we are not acting as individuals, but as part of the Soverign Nation that we belong to, as part of the Government that represents us as a Nation.
Amen brother, thank you for bringing scripture to this conversation. I hadnt had time to look that passage up today, and you stepped in and did that for me.
When I was an active duty Marine I did not do the things I did as an individual. I represented my country and my government. Not everything our country has done has been right. Slavery, for instance. What finally put an end to slavery? War. (And my ancestors were Confederates!)
What ended Hitlers attempt to exterminate the Jews? War.
What ended the systamtic murder of thousands of people in Iraq by Saddam? War. Say what you want about WMD's... I believe we should have gone in based on the fact that Saddam was exterminating his own people. My only problem is that I dont understand why we dont do that with other nations as well... like the Sudan.
What put an end to the murderous rampage of Bonnie & Clyde 70 years ago? A hail of bullets from government agents.
God established government not to terrorize and control people, but to maintain order. I have several friends who are police officers AND Christians. Every single one of them have at one time or another drawn their guns on people when they were in threatening situations. There is nothing wrong with that.
I was in combat during Desert Storm. I personally have drawn a bead on other men while a Marine. While I was not a Christian at the time, I served with other Marines who were... and they were right beside me. So far as I know, they had no feelings of guilt. Pity on those on the other side of the conflict, but not guilt.
I think everyone here should feel free to hold whatever opinions they want to, but it is always interesting to me that those who have never served, or have never been under fire really do not understand the reason and purpose of the military.
Others will die in this conflict and fight against terrorism. The death of this man does not mean the end of the fighting. However it does mean that THIS man will not be able to terrorize, torture and kill other human beings. I think that is a good thing. It's a victory to people around the world who love peace and despise the murder of innocent blood.
| 2006/6/8 16:35|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
By the way, I served over there as a US Marine a decade ago when it was called Desert Storm. I've been in combat, I saw the "Highway of Death" first hand. So I have a little better perspective on war and what needs to happen than the average arm chair quarterback who gets their (mis)information from CNN.
what about fox news? :-P
| 2006/6/8 16:53||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| Re: Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi Killed in Bombing Raid|
i'm a bit confused here, i'm not disputing that every nation has provision in scripture to defend itself as Stever very well showed and backed with scripture. however i must ask a question:
you wrote this:
I, for one, say "Praise God!"
Of course the Lord does not rejoice in the death of sinners, but this is a man deserving of what he received. This is a great day for America, and for our allies in the global war on terror.
praising God for this man's death and touting it as a great day for the nation.
then you wrote this:
There may be some who wonder how I can feel good about the death of another human... I recommend you watch the videos of Al-Zarqawi hacking the heads off of two Americans with a small knife. It will change your mind forever about this animal. If the videos do not convince you that demonic forces do exist, nothing will
if God is not rejoicing over the death of this sinner ,should we? or perhaps you're not rejoicing and i'm misreading yuor post? just seeking clarity.
| 2006/6/8 17:00||Profile|
Hi everyone. I can appreciate the sentiments expressed concerning our Goverment's rights and also see them as God given, as has been pointed out.
A couple things for balance...
Maybe our brother Kire is expressing the tension that exists for us as we walk in this world but must gaurd against becoming entangled in the affairs of it; we exercise influence upon it and the authority of Heaven in it, yes, and that may be through or under the systems of this world, nevertheless there seems to be always that tension that we must be mindfull of?
Secondly regarding our response to the destruction of the ungodly. I find in my own relationship to God a deficiency concerning my love for justice as compared to His. I suspect that this is true for all of us to varying degrees and is evinced in our reponse to the judgement of Hell, excepting perhaps those who are freshly and or newly convicted of the heinous nature of sin by the grace of the Holy Spirit.
So then, in seeing justice excecuted upon others, knowing somewhat how corrupt and worthy I am of justice and how much I have been spared from God's just demands, I can feel a sense of soberness and sadness when it is meted out in others. It seems for me there is a difficulty in the unjust loving justice, at least in the same way that our Holy God does? Maybe it is, that this condition improves along with sanctification?
I am reminded too of this famous qoute which says something like
there but for the grace of God go I
I know that some beloved brethren may not believe that they could ever have sunk down to the level of this man who was killed but I am becoming more and more convinced that this is so, not because of any virtue in our souls, but rather because of the providential care of them by our Father.
Peace be with you all in Christ Jesus.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2006/6/8 17:48||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| on the Love of God|
let it be known that i believe that if one violates the law, he/she is subject to the consequences thereof. as surely as we all have sinned, so shall we die because the wages of sin is death.
in reading this thread and seeking the Lord on some of what has been brought up, i feel led of the Lord to bring some things up for consideration. we know the Lord doesn't rejoice in the death of a sinner for He would that all would come to repentance as the word says, so we ourselves ought not to rejoice for if the Lord is grieved, what right have we to rejoice?
bro Krispy brought up the topic of a multiple rapist who was caught and admitted to more rapes and i'm sure he is being duly prosecuted. again in case someone missed it at the beginning of this post, i'm not for people not being punished as the law makes provision for their crimes. this goes for anyone and everyone from the pauper to the president for noone should be exempt from the law. so i'm not saying we should give him a tract and let him go free. let us also keep in mind that when crimes are committed, great or small there is another victim beside the one the crime is committed against. that victim brethren is God Himself. How it must hurt Him so to see us behave so wickedly! yet for all that grief, who among us can say that when they sought His forgiveness they were denied? sure we suffered the consequence for our sins but were forgiven.
what then? should we not witness to such people? should we not love them and reach out to them with the gospel as led of God? does the word not say to love our enemies? did God not love us first while we were yet sinners? let us consider the enemy here in this instance, the terrorists. as per the word of God, we are to love them too. WHAT?!?!How can we love such barbaric people? How can God love us despite our own sin and iniquity? He does and we are to express this same kind of love to all men. sure it's easy to love our other Christian brethren, that's cake. try loving bin-laden...if the heathen can love oneanother, it can't be that the love we as Christians show is the same as what the heathen show, NO WAY. like the word says, how different then would we be from the heathen? the love we are to express is that love which issues forth from the throne of God Himself. that love which loves all men despite their faults. that's a tall order...it requires that we empty ourselves of the love which we have naturally (which we primarily operate in)if we operate in this sort of Love, which indeed is the only true love because that which comes from our flesh (natural love) is not sufficient for the lofty purposes of a Holy God.
it seems to me brethren (if i am wrong please correct me) that this Love is the most powerful thing there is and nothing can withstand it. what does the word say? for God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. WOW! look at what that love has accomplished in your own life. look at some of the sins that love has feed you from? That same love is what cause Saul of Tarsus to give up his life as a persecutor if Christians (he may have killed a few even, we know he was at stephen's stoning. if i remember correctly because he did nothing he could be tried as an accessory to murder? yet stephen pleaded with God as he died that God forgive them for what they did...that's heavy)to become a champion for the Faith he desparately tried to extinguish. that same love is what has brought all of us here to Christ.
brethren if i am wrong and a fool forgive me and seek the Lord to loose me from this, but i am convinced that if we were to operate in the Love of God, nothing would be out of reach. even bin-laden himself would be brought to Christ if the pure love of God were to confront him. the cost however of operating in such love is nothing short of everything you are and everything that i am. to have the Love of God operating in you and i is to relinquish even that love that we express naturally. it means to yield completely to God. it means a trip to the cross, to hang on it and to die, no matter how long it takes. after which we are raise to Life, the Life of Christ and we can say like Paul, i am crucfied with Christ and i live, yet not i but Christ lives in me. to have the Life of Christ (which is the only true Life for it doesn't die) is to also have the Love of Christ by which He endured the death on the cross and all the humiliation associated with it for the glory of God by redeeming us.
Dare we put on the Love of Christ? Dare we underestimate the power in the Love of a Holy God? Dare we mess around and turn this love loose in our lives and on the world? Dare we Love as God loves? who is sufficient for such things!?!? the trouble is brethren, once we come to Christ God expects nothing less of us than to Love as He does. Anything less is not acceptable. the cost is everything, are we prepared to pay this cost? We have been warned and are without excuse before the Lord as far as what is expected of us by the Father. oh the gravity of the calling of God and it's dear cost!!! Oh my Lord what shall we do? brethen what shall we do?
| 2006/6/8 18:24||Profile|