""""P.s. To sum this up, views like yours that make Christians more than the mudballs they really are, will be those of the apostate Church that enter the Tribulation with the False Prophet""""
2 Corinthians 6:16-18 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
How? Because of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I don't think By the Cross He thinks His brothers and sisters are mud balls.
In Christ My Brother: Phillip, By Christ my Lord.
| 2006/6/4 1:12||Profile|
Previously you compared your walk to that of Christ.
That is what my response was to, your lack of understanding of who and what we are. We will only be like Christ (Him) at the rapture. In the meantime, we have Adams blood, and only the down payment of the Holy Ghost. We have it with measure, He had it (the Holy Ghost) WITHOUT MEASURE. We have Adams blood, and Jesus Has God's blood in his veins.
It seems like you are not comfortable responding to anything I have posted. It is all addressed to you. Take it line by line, and provide your answer, if you have one.
| 2006/6/4 1:48|
It is all about the timing, Now, we see through a glass darkly--meaning that now, in our bodies of flesh and blood, we can not see clearly.
but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Now I know in part, but then, at the rapture I will know everything because I will be like Him.
We are only becoming more like Him because we allow Him total access to our being. But, no matter how much we let Him in, we still see through the glass darkly.
We are never going to be like him until the rapture. Do you know of anyone that is like Him today?
We know we will be like Him at the Resurrection, when we receive our new bodies of flesh and bone, exactly like His.
The descrition of the Grand Finale is in Revelation 21 at the end of the Bible--this is a picture of all of us together with Him, who will wipe away all of our tears, and there is no more sorrow, forever:
1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. AND GOD SHALL WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS FROM THEIR EYES; AND THERE SHALL BE NO MORE DEATH, NEITHER SORROW, NOR CRYING, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE ANY MORE PAIN: FOR THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. AND HE SAID UNTO ME, WRITE: FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUE AND FAITHFUL.
6. AND HE SAID UNTO ME, IT IS DONE. I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE END. I WILL GIVE UNTO HIM THAT IS ATHIRST OF THE FOUNTAIN OF THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY.
7. HE THAT OVERCOMETH SHALL INHERIT ALL THINGS; AND I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON.
8. BUT THE FEARFUL, AND UNBELIEVING, AND ABOMINABLE, AND MURDERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND SORCERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND ALL LIARS, SHALL HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH.
9. And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11. Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12. And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
| 2006/6/4 2:09|
"We are to respond the same way when the "spirit" talks to us. Those that don't will be deceived!"
Absolutely, then I did not ere. He was not fooled and we won't be either if we keep our mind of The Spirit. We have the mind of Christ also.
I read you whole post. I just wondered where I erred. Every thing else I agree completely."
We do not agree. You still do not see it. The Spirit that talks to us has to be tested by God's word, THAT IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE. What I mean by that is if a brother tells me that the Spirit has told him that he is going to be on earth after the rapture, I have to doubt what he is saying to me.
Because God's word tells me that all believers will escape the Wrath to Come:
"10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
We test the spirits that talk to us by God's Word. We listen to the spirit that talks to us, yes, But we must test the spirit by God's Word, the Bible.
Otherwise we never know who this spirit is. Is it the "spirit of antichrist"?, is it the spirit of Satan? Is it the spirit of my own flesh, that is wicked? Or is the Holy Spirit that dwells within us.
Even if we have the Bible memorized completely, we still have to test the spirit with the BIBLE.
[b][color=FF0000]What you have described is "experiental Christianity" that is taking the World by storm right now. No one is testing the spirits that talk to them because they are all believers in Jesus Christ, so in their error they believe that only the Holy Spirit talks to them.[/color][/b]
Satan talked to Christ, and had access to him afterward, and he also has access to us. Also, our flesh (pride) has access to us, as well as
satan's demons. Finally the Holy Ghost has access to us.
We must test the Spirit with God's Word, the Protestant Bible. Not the Catholic Bible, not the NIV or the newer versions, only with the "received" text, the "majority" text and not the minority text that created the Catholic Bible and all of the newer Bible versions that are full of error and will deceive us.
| 2006/6/4 2:27|
There is something missing here. Steve do you believe that the Spirit of Jesus Christ is birthed in you? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is a Person? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit has been given you from the Father by the prayer of Jesus Christ and is Baptized into you. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Word and the Word is a Person.
What is "experiential Christianity"? I thought we were to experience This Christ that is born again in us. I can be betrothed to a spouse, but cannot experience marriage until I am one with the betrothed.
Are we one with Christ in Spirit and soul?
Can we not control these flesh bodies, by the Spirit that gives us the power to overcome sin?
We must be of agreement on some of these.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2006/6/4 13:05||Profile|
I can't believe you just related the Holy Spirit of God as a "downpayment" :-( :-o
| 2006/6/4 15:36||Profile|
That one went over my head. Please explain down payment.
| 2006/6/4 17:21||Profile|
Hebrews 12:18-29 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
You believe we can test the spirits, by the Word of God? We cannot even control our own spirits, for we did not even know the spirit Of Satan was our father until the Holy Spirit revealed it to us. We know have the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit in us to reveal wrong spirits. My flesh wants so terribly to maintain the control that I can do something to test the spirits. This is a true lie from the devil. Christ was put in me to make sure I knew the wrong spirit and The Holy Spirit is the convictor of my soul. He will show me wrong spirits and He will use the Words of Christ and God the Father. For He will speak to no man except by the Words given Him by Jesus Christ.
God is the consuming Fire, Not my petty testing of the spirits. Christ is in us, we have this power by the Holy Spirit, all we have to do is make ourselves available to it. The Word will take care of itself.
We have only two tests in trying the spirits.
1 Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
2 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,
If our testing goes any farther than these we are deceiving ourselves.
In compliance with the test, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 4:1-6 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2006/6/4 18:14||Profile|
| Re:The Down Payment|
Teaching of "The Down Payment"
God knows that we are fearful, suspicious people. We are far more fearful than we ever would want to admit. We are far more suspicious than we ever really will acknowledge. Knowing our frame, God has been absolutely extravagant in the demonstration of His love for us. He went out of His way to gain the confidence of our fearful hearts.
First of all, He gave a Son publicly on the cross on our behalf. Secondly, Ephesians 1:13 and 14 states that a third member of the Trinity is involved in Gods demonstration of His love for us. This is true of believers but it is not true of non-Christians. The Son of God was given to deal with the sins of everyone, the entire world. The Holy Spirit was particularly given to Christians to deal with the world of fear within their hearts.
Verse 13 says:
In whom also you yourselves, having previously heard the word of the truth, the good news of your deliverance, in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise (referring to the promise of the gospel of John 14:16-17 where Jesus said He would send another comforter), who is an arrabon of our inheritance unto a full deliverance of the permanent possession, unto the praise of His glory.
God gave the Spirit to us after we became believers, and the text says this spirit is an arrabon. What is an arrabon? If we went to Greece today and met an engaged lady and asked to see her arrabon, she would put out her hand with an engagement ring on it. In modern Greek, that is what the word means. A hundred years ago, if a woman received an engagement ring, it meant the fellow promised he would follow through on that marriage. If he did not, the lady kept the ring. The piece of jewelry was a down payment reflecting his intentions. If the woman was attractive and calculating, she could make a necklace out of the rings of the victims she ensnared. The rule was, the lady kept the ring. Arrabon is a word derived from ancient Greek. In ancient Greece, an arrabon had to do with property. An arrabon was a "non-returnable down payment on a piece of property that was going to be completely purchased later."
A contract was made, and because it involved property, the purchaser gave a non-returnable down payment called an arrabon. The buyer gave it to the owner of the property. If the buyer did not follow through with the full purchase price, the owner kept the arrabon.
Think this through: the third member of the Trinity is our arrabon. There is no reason in the world for God to give us the third person of the Trinity as a down payment. He knows that Hes going to follow through, but the question is: do we really believe that He will follow through on His intentions? We are often suspicious and fearful.
God the Trinity contains three members: one is a Father, one is a Son, and the other is the Holy Spirit. God the Trinity GAVE ONE OF ITS MEMBERS on the cross to pay for our wrongdoing. God the Trinity gave the third member of the Trinity, God the Holy Spirit, as a down payment to us. In a real sense, two members of the Trinity are involved in our assurance. The giving of the third member of the Trinity is as significant as the gift of the second member of the Trinity.
While the Son of God suffered on the cross, He was satisfying the righteous sense of God concerning our sins. He was in torment. The torment of the second member of the Trinity lasted hours. As for the third member of the Trinity, His torment may last our lifetime. He is in us, listening to us, spending time with us. When we sin, His pain or grief exists because He dwells in us. Being mindful of this, the letter to the Ephesians says not to pain or grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom we are sealed until the day of redemption.
Stop putting the Holy Spirit of God into deep pain, by whom you were sealed until the day of complete redemption.
That third member of the Trinity is given to us because God wants us to know that He will follow through with His intentions. Why is He doing this? Because Hes going to forget? Because Hes dishonest? Because He has to force Himself into a corner? None of those reasons. He publicly displayed His Son on the cross so that we would know what we are worth to Him. He has personally placed the Holy Spirit in our lives so that we will have confidence that He will follow through. Theoretically, if He didnt follow through, we would keep the third member of the Trinity. Theoretically, if we went to Hell, He would be there with us. I dont know what we would do with Him in Hell, but He is our arrabon.
Two-thirds of the Trinity have been given to win our assurance. God has not given money for us. God has not given things for us. He has given two persons for us. One cannot give more than oneself. God has given His Son as the once-and-for-all sacrifice. He has given His Spirit as the once-and-for-all DOWN PAYMENT.
Something else is said in Ephesians 1:13:
In whom also you yourselves, having believed the word of the truth, the good news of your deliverance, in whom also having believed, you were sealed.
In the Roman world, a seal did two things. It declared ownership and it declared the owners intention to protect his property and to go after the person who attempted to break the seal. The Romans shipped grain from Egypt by sea to Italy in order to feed themselves. They had given up farming and now they relied on the Egyptian breadbasket to keep them going. When the Egyptians shipped the millions of bushels to Italy, the grain was put into burlap bags, which were then sealed with a dried clay seal. The Roman seal said two things: this belongs to Rome, and Rome will protect it. If pirates stole it, the Roman fleet found them and destroyed them. They protected it. Paul used the symbol of the seal the same way. God is not going to break the seal because the Holy Spirit is His arrabon. If anyone else attempts to break the seal, the presence of the Spirit of God proclaims two things: this person is owned by God and this person will be protected by God.
The Holy Spirit is the arrabon. After we believed, we were sealed by the Holy Spirit of the promise, who is an arrabon, a "non-redeemable down payment of our inheritance."
Notice the term inheritance. Inheritance is the completion of everything were supposed to receive. God gives us the Holy Spirit as proof that were going to receive everything He intends.
He has promised: heaven, glorification, ruling, rewards, the New Jerusalem, the presence of Jesus Christ throughout eternity, joys forevermore at His right hand, the position of exalted sonship above angels, and the recognition of our authority throughout the universe because weve been joined to Christ.
All of those things are our inheritance.
The proof of that future inheritance is the person of the Spirit of God. God has given two-thirds of the Trinity to us. One person was given on the cross, the other in the person of the Spirit of God to win our allegiance. After doing that, in effect, He says, Make sense out of it; make sense of how important you are. Make sense of how loved you are. Look at those gifts and think it through, because this is God who is giving these gifts. The cross defines our worth. The person of the Spirit of God defines our security. Two-thirds of the Trinity have been given to win our allegiance.
P.S. I hope this helps explain the "Down Payment"
| 2006/6/4 19:11|
Santa Clara, CA
Stop putting the Holy Spirit of God into deep pain, by whom you were sealed until the day of complete redemption.
Which version is that?
| 2006/6/4 21:04||Profile|