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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : saved whitout doing the work???

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hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 saved whitout doing the work???

i have a problem, maybe some of u can shine some light on this.... the last words in these verses

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

what do paul mean here? yet so as by fire??? even if u dont do any work for god youre still saved?

or do i have it all wrong...???? and whats the fire???

gods peace to you
bro Christian


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2006/5/24 8:32Profile









 Re: saved whitout doing the work???

Dear Brother Christian:

What Paul is referring to here is the Bema Judgemt Seat of rewards that all Christians go through. We all are inspected by HIM, Jesus Christ and all of the works that we have performed in our lifetime will go through the fire of HIS gaze. All of our works that were performed for HIS glory will receive a reward of Gold or Silver. All of the works that we have performed for our own glory will be burned before our eyes as wood, hay and stubble, but we shall all live because all of those going through this Bema Judgment are already saved.

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The Bema Seat is for believers whose salvation has already been secured by faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). We should not focus on the Bema Seat as Christ judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us according to our lives. Yes, we will surely have to give an account of our lives. Romans 14:10-12 explains, "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God." Part of this judgment is answering for the sins we committed. At the same time, I do not think judgment is going to be the focus of the Bema Seat.

In 2 Corinthians 5:10, Paul gives the Corinthian church an illustration of the Bema Seat, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Paul is teaching us that all Christians will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ. At the Bema Seat, Jesus Christ will bring to light every deed-good or bad-that each believer has done on earth since he or she became a Christian. Every Christian will be rewarded based on his words, deeds, and faithfulness Bema Seat - What is Our Judgment Based On?

At the Bema Seat of Christ, believers will be rewarded according to how faithfully they served, obeyed, and followed Christ. (See 1 Corinthians 9:4-27 for a detailed explanation.)

Some of the things we will likely be judged on are:

• whether we fulfilled our role in the Great Commission. Matthew 28:18-20 says, "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.'"

• how victorious we were over sin. Romans 6:1-4 reminds us, "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

• whether we were successful in controlling our tongue. James 3:1-9 says, "All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?

• whether the fruit of the Spirit was manifest in our lives. Galatians 5:22-23 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

The Bible mentions Christians receiving crowns for various aspects of the Christian life and they are described in 2 Timothy 4:8, "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day-and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing." James 1:12 says, "Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."

In response, believers will cast their crowns before the Lord's throne saying, "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being" (Revelation 4:11).

Bema Seat - What is our response as a Believer in Jesus Christ?

Are we prepared to stand before the Bema Seat of Christ?

In Revelation 22:12, Jesus Christ declares, "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done."

Do we live our lives out of gratitude for what Christ has accomplished for us? Is our motivation for serving Christ not for rewards in heaven, but rather a grateful and loving heart that sacrificially gives back to God.? As a result of our love for Christ and appreciation for His of death on our behalf, and we serve God with all our heart's, then we will be rewarded at the Bema Seat.

May the Apostle Paul's words in 2 Timothy 4:7-8 be true of us all! "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day-and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."

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God bless,

Stever :-)
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Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i have a problem, maybe some of u can shine some light on this.... the last words in these verses

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

what do paul mean here? yet so as by fire??? even if u dont do any work for god youre still saved?

or do i have it all wrong...???? and whats the fire???

gods peace to you
bro Christian

 2006/5/24 10:49
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: May God refine our works

HmmHmm, What a great question! You sure are thinking as you read the Word.

I suppose that there is a temptation to make this reference say something that contradicts other scriptures in order to bolster one’s sense of eternal security. But that, I believe is taking advantage of God’s grace, and is not what Paul would wish.

Clearly, from scripture, faith without works is dead. James says, ‘Whatever is not of faith is sin”. That would include a lot of good works that flow from our natural self, rather than the Spirit. It’ll all be burned away by the fire of judgment. In other words, it won’t hold us up and save us from God’s wrath.

In the warning chapters of Revelation 2 and 3 we read repetitively, “I know your deeds”.. “Clearly deeds are like the marks on a thermometer – they measure one’s spiritual condition.

That’s no answer to your questions, just a truth that must not be pushed into the shadows in light of 1 Cor. 3: 15

I know that I have a lot of deeds stacked up in my personal history that won’t stand the fires – wasted words, wasted thoughts, wasted opportunities, selfish gestures, self-defensive maneuvers, works done with my own fleshly energy. I can’t turn back the clock but I can only trust in God’s forgiveness, and ask him to continue to refine me and purify my deeds.
If anything, this scripture reference is a good reminder to seek God to purify us and conform us to his image – whatever the cost, and however hot the refining fires get.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/5/24 10:53Profile
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re:

Listen to the Judgment Seat of Christ by Leonard Ravenhill. GO GO GO!


_________________
Scroggins

 2006/5/24 11:06Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Teach a command, but break it?

There is another verse that is similar that has puzzled me lately.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2006/5/24 12:38Profile









 Re:

To Christian:

Christ's word tells us that Christians are delivered (past tense) from the wrath to come. The definition of wrath? The Great Tribulation, as well as Hell.

1 Thess 12:10

10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. The only requirement? To believe in Him.

"What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" And Jesus replied "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." [John 6:28-27]


The Christian believer is already judged as being righteous by the works of Jesus Christ, who paid the price for all people, from the beginning of time, to the end of time.

Behold, the Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the World.
John 1:29

Again, the only requirement is our belief in Him as Lord, and in his death and resurrection.
" 9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."
[Romans 10:9-11]


God bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/24 17:10
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

I a person gets a job and has never been taught the job or how to do it. Who will the new employee listen to and how will he learn the job.

Well that is exactly what God has done when He put Christ in us. This job is completely foreign to the believer, nothing he brings to the job of being a Christian is even has the least remote possibility of helping him learn the job. Sure you can read the bible, go to church, do all the works that religion says will make you a Christian. There is nothing a babe in Christ can do except stay at the feet of the One that hang on a cross to make the Christian who he is. We also have a teacher, the Holy Spirit and He will show us what is at the foot of the Cross, especially now that the One that did the Work to make it possible to become a Christian is birthed in us.

Paul speaks to this always. Ephesians 1:1-5 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ok, now that you are a Christian and God has done all this for you. You go on and do the works that will please Me. I don't think so.
The Judgment Seat of Christ is exactly what it says. He will judge what we have done by Himself that is in us. God will have something to say about it also. What have you done with the Son that I birthed, placed, gave you or what ever you want to call it. I placed, birthed, have given, made you to be, exactly what it will take to make the Job I have planned for you and please me, and that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. If you think all your works will show your Faith, you are wrong. What faith, we have none except the measure of faith for every man to live in this world and eat and sleep and work and what ever it takes in this world and most of us can't even handle that.

What faith and what works do we possible think we can offer to make the boss happy. None.
One time James, The Law preacher from Jerusalem says If you don't have works you don't have faith and everybody jumps on the band wagon and says, Yes, we can do it, or we must do it to show God the faith we have. What dribble.

Ephesians 1:5-14 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

If you read these scripture where in the world are our works, what have we done or to do to make us to the praise of His Glory.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How are we to walk in good works, Those that are created in Christ Jesus Which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. We cannot walk in them by our own works, we can only walk in them by the good works of Jesus Christ who is born again in us.

One scripture I'll show you my faith by my works, this is true but they certainly are not my works, they are His works in me, and they are the only works that can show the Faith of Christ that is been given us.

Again Faith without works is dead. Any works without the Faith of Jesus Christ making them His works in us is dead, dead, dead. "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me, and the life I now live I live by the Faith of the Son of God" But man wants not to believe this, he wants to be his own god and show all that his works are what will show his faith.

Colossians 1:23-28 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

What works will make us perfect in Christ, warning every man and teaching every man that it is Christ in You the hope of Glory that will save you by His works in you, and through you, not my works lest any man can boast, forget the should.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/24 18:43Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: saved whitout doing the work???

Quote:
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.



This judgement is at the Lord's comming and preceeds the manifestion of the Kingdom which is the Mellinial Kingdom when Christ will reign and His overcommers will reign with Him As Romans 8:16-17 says:

"The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God. And if children, heirs also; on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him."

Read in it's whole context of 1 cor 3:9-15, the nature of this judgement is regarding what materials we build with on the one foundation laid which is Christ.

It is not in regard to Eternal salvation but with regard to the reward of the Kingdom.

The proper materials for God's building are Gold (the Divine Nature), Silver (Christ's redemption) and precious stones (the Spirit's transforming work).

Compare this with Song of Songs where the companions of the Lord work to perfect and beautify the Bride to be with gold plaitted hair with studds of silver and a string of jewells (precious stones) as her adornment.

SofSongs 1:10,11 Your cheeks are lovely with plaits of ornaments, your neck with strings of jewells. We will make you plaits of gold with studs of silver" Plaits of gold is gold interwoven in the hair as braids.

The Aposte begins this section of scripture with "you are God's farm, God's building. He is speaking of the body of Christ as God's building. And it's consumation is the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21-22. This is what God is building. And these are the materials He is building it with.

And on this farm a crop is growing. That is the Divine Life is growing in his believers producing the precious materials for God's building. And the believers are also the building (living stones) And it is these materials which are suitable for building up the body of Christ.

Compare this with Genesis 2 where we have the River flowing from the midst of the Garden with the Tree of Life. And on it's banks are gold, dellium, and Onyx (precious stones). The issue of the flow of the river is the gold and precious stones. No silver because no redemption is needed in Genesis 2.

And it is the flow of the water of Life within us that produces the materials for God's building. And it is only the issue of this flow which is suitable for us to build with.

Again in Revelation 21-22 we have the New Jerusalem of pure Gold with precious stones with the River of the Water of Life (the Spirit) flowing within it from the throne of God and of the Lamb. And the Tree of Life is along it's banks. This is the consumation of God's building, the agragate of all the redeemed, regenerated, transformed, and transfigured saints as God's organic building, His tabernacle, His dwelling place, the Wife of the Lamb and the City of God.

What we will be judged on at this judgement is our work as ministers of Christ and all beievers are ministers of Christ and should be building up the body of Christ (Ephesians 4:11,12). Many are building on Christ with wood, hay and stubble which the fire of His judgement will consume. Many are not building at all but just sit in a pew.

But what we have built with the proper materials will pass through the fire and remain into the eternal age and we will have a reward in the comming age.

Ephesians 2:20-22 Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone; In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; In whom you also are being built into a dwelling place of God in spirit."

When the Apostle says, "Yet he himself shall be saved yet so as through fire" I believe he intends us to understand it exactly as he says it. Many will be saved but their work will be burned. They have eternal Life but they have no reward in the Kingdom age.

Graftedbranch



 2006/5/30 19:31Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Amen,

""Compare this with Genesis 2 where we have the River flowing from the midst of the Garden with the Tree of Life. And on it's banks are gold, dellium, and Onyx (precious stones). The issue of the flow of the river is the gold and precious stones. No silver because no redemption is needed in Genesis 2.

And it is the flow of the water of Life within us that produces the materials for God's building. And it is only the issue of this flow which is suitable for us to build with.""

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 4:39-42 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. And many more believed because of his own word; And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

The Gospel in a small powerful living Word, Water.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/30 20:44Profile





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