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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

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doublej
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Joined: 2005/12/7
Posts: 3


 Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

OK folks, I have a question here that i myself cant really get around to find a solution for. For the past few weeks I've been mediating on this verse: "Faith without works is Dead". Although this scripture might be easy to understand, I'm finding it really difficult to apply it in my life. For instance, If a man is suffering from a illnes and is completly puting his faith in God without the use of any medicine, is this man fullfilling words of this verse? He's trusting in God, but is he completing the "works" part of the verse?

If at all any of you have any insight please reply to this thread. If none of you understand what I'm trying to get across, please let me know, I'll try my best to clear things up. Anyways, Thanks for your time, I do appreciate it.
doublej :-)

 2006/5/22 23:36Profile
Combat_Chuck
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re: Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

Something I've been considering lately... "Is faith itself a work?"

One thing I notice whenever I read the Bible, is that faith is an action word. It's always believing and trusting in God, yet it is ACTION.

Like the chair example... We can look at a chair, and say we believe it will support us, and say we trust it. But we are not exercizing faith until we sit down in the chair.

Check out Mark 2:1-12 and 5:25-43 for some awesome examples of faith in action.

Also here's a definition from Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

And basically all of hebrews 11 is about faith. Check it out.


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Combat Chuck

 2006/5/23 0:28Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re: Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

First of all who was James writing to? Who is our faith from and who operates it in us. If I show you my Faith by my works, it must be the works of Christ in me. So it is not my works that operate to show you my Faith. Those works are dead works. The only works that show the Faith of God that is in us, which is Christ, is the Works of Christ in us, coming forth from us as Christ's Faith comes from Him.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

If we seek to be justified by what we do, we are not living by Who we are, but by what we do.

If I am not taking medicine because I trust in Christ, who is doing the works to be justified to receive the Healing from Him.

Take the medicine and trust in what Christ can do, regardless of the medicine. If is die, it is gain, if I stay it is better for those that see the Faith of Christ in me. I am content in every situation in want or need or blessing or plenty. We are not body person's we are Spirit person's if the Spirit of Christ dwell in you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

In Christ: Phillip

I hope this helps, I hope it does not confuse and make things worse. If no help, forgive me. I'll keep trying.


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Phillip

 2006/5/23 0:28Profile
Combat_Chuck
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

word, Phillip! ;-)


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Combat Chuck

 2006/5/23 0:41Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

CombatChuck:

I was so lost when I was trying to find faith. I went to faith seminars read faith books, tried even to move a little frog by faith, and heal my cat when she died. I could not. Then one day I read Gal 2 and the Holy Spirit spoke and twice the scriptures said it was the faith of Jesus Christ. Then the light went on and revelation came tumbling down. It was not my faith that would move mountains, because all I needed was an amount as big as a mustard seed, which is so small you can barely see it. If I could not even move a frog or heal my cat, that must mean I had no faith. I was crushed, because I so wanted to see Jesus, but that took faith. Well guess what, I see Him, I cannot see you Adam but I see Jesus in you, and the reason is I see Jesus in me. It is His Faith that I have, not mine. His faith will move the frog if He wants to and His faith can Heal my cat if he gets sick. But not my will but His be done.

I am praying with tears for Victor. I don't know him but I so love him, by your faith in him, which is the Faith of the Son of God in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/23 1:53Profile
Combat_Chuck
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

Thank you so much Phillip. God bless you.

(A little update on Vic,
He decided to remain here in town and not move to south carolina, for the time being. I also recently gave him two books, The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer and The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee. I might go visit him Wednesday, Lord willing.)

Adam


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Combat Chuck

 2006/5/23 2:33Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
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 Re:

Tell him for me God surly as Christ died on the Cross loves him and I do too.

Thanks for sharing him with us and the opportunity to bring him before Gods presence and share his pain.

In Christ: Phllip


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Phillip

 2006/5/23 6:15Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

Pauls' discription of works & Faith
1) Works of the Law (minus faith)----->curse Galatians 3:10
2) Works of the Law + faith ----------->Flesh Galatians 3:2,3
3) Faith (minus works of the Law)------>salvation/justification before God


James discription of works & Faith
a) Works (minus faith)------>No salvation; see Cornelius Acts 10:2.
b) Works + faith ------------>Love of GOD & justification James 2:21
c) Faith (minus works)------>dead faith. no fruit. John 15:2

[b]Gal 2:16[/b] [color=990000]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/color]
The word "if" is a primary word of conditionality, provisional, or tentative
[b]Romans 4:2[/b] [color=990000]providing that Abraham was justified by works, he would have something to gloryabout; but not before God. [/color]

Notice that James was specific on what Abrahams' work was?
Pauls work of Abraham is totaly diferent.
Pauls work is of the Law and circumcision.
[b]Romans 3:28[/b] [color=990000]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/color]
[b]Romans 4:10[/b] [color=990000]How was it then reckoned(righteous)? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.[/color]

[b]James 2:21[/b] [color=990000]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?[/color]
What was Abrahams' work when He did this?
Loving God supremly and trusting God would raise his son.
God was testing Abraham's love. Does Abraham love God more than his son?
God was also testing Abrahams' faith. Does Abraham trust God to raise his son?

Paul is talking about Abrahams' work of circumcision and belif that God will bless him, while James is showing Abrahams' work of love and faith to God which justified him
Love fulfills the Law.


James work of the Law of Liberty (freedom)
[b]James 1:25[/b] [color=990000]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.[/color]
[b]2:12[/b] [color=990000]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.[/color]

 2006/5/23 9:35Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

Quote:
If a man is suffering from a illnes and is completly puting his faith in God without the use of any medicine, is this man fullfilling words of this verse? He's trusting in God, but is he completing the "works" part of the verse?



As Philip pointed out, the "works" James is speaking about is really the outward evidence of the life of Christ in the one with true saving faith. James is speaking of obedience, brotherly love, etc. He's speaking about fruits of righteousness and therefore I'm not sure it is the best verse to apply to the man unwilling to take medicine because he thinks it exhibits a deficient faith.

I think it would be better to point such a one to verses like 1 Timothy 5:23 where Paul gives what is basically medical advice to Timothy. It may also be helpful to consider that Luke, who was Paul's companion in his journies, was a physician. I think a balance of Scripture needs to be considered. Certainly divine healing is available and should be sought but who's to say that healing won't come through a doctor? Don't all good things come from God including knowledge and skill to heal those things that afflict us?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/5/23 10:34Profile









 Re: Trying to Understand "Faith Without Works is dead"

The example James gives is very clearly showing that if we say we are christian, yet do not act accordingly when given the opportunity, such as feeding a man we see needs fed, then how on earth can we believe ourselves christian and of the faith.

Our "faith" (our christianity) is dead, non-existant, when we can watch a man starving in the streets and do nothing but hand him a bible and then walk on past.

Quote:

doublej wrote:
OK folks, I have a question here that i myself cant really get around to find a solution for. For the past few weeks I've been mediating on this verse: "Faith without works is Dead". Although this scripture might be easy to understand, I'm finding it really difficult to apply it in my life. For instance, If a man is suffering from a illnes and is completly puting his faith in God without the use of any medicine, is this man fullfilling words of this verse? He's trusting in God, but is he completing the "works" part of the verse?

If at all any of you have any insight please reply to this thread. If none of you understand what I'm trying to get across, please let me know, I'll try my best to clear things up. Anyways, Thanks for your time, I do appreciate it.
doublej :-)

 2006/5/23 12:07





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