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 Re:

Even tho I hold a different position from Mike concerning this issue... I agree with him that this issue needs to be discussed rationally and intelligently without rudeness. It certainly is a hot button, and in my opinion a very crucial matter. But accusations and attacks dont do anything but push people away.

Krispy

 2006/5/10 7:28
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

People will argue about translations, which is superior to another....from my vantage point in life it appears to me the greater issue is simply obedience to God's word! Even when all used the KJV there were serious theological disagreements dividing people, e.g, once saved always saved, can a person lose his/her salvation?, marriage/divorce/remarriage, women in church leadership, headcoverings, bearing arms, swearing an oath, abortion/infanticide,(these are old issues)...and etc. We cannot blame the translation in use for this.

The greater problem to me is saying "Yes, LORD, I will do as you say" without giving any logical reasons for not doing so! And, yes, I will give a newer translation to one who is a new Christian because the old English is intimidating.

BTW: how about all the translations in other languages? Are they all missing the boat because they cannot have the KJV? cannot read English?

(I just remembered how years ago "Reader's Digest" jumped on the Bible translation/paraphrase bandwagon and issued a condensed version of the Bible...apparently it flopped because it was not around very long.)

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/5/10 8:31Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

I have gotten some great advice from revkerrigan, he told me to go to his site www.pinpointevangelism.com and check out "which version of the bible to use" it is a 8 part series with the general editors from NIV, NKJV, NASB and some king james only people. I feel this will help all of you out greatly. It has given me some good insight to which translation to really use.


_________________
Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/10 8:56Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Stever,

You need to stop comparing everything to the KJV!!!!

Study what the original language said, not what the KJV said. They get it wrong too, you know.


_________________
Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/10 8:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Study what the original language said, not what the KJV said. They get it wrong too, you know.



Really? Where...? Dont just throw that out there without some proof. Where is the KJV wrong? I think there are a few spots where the translation could be a little more clear, but to say they made mistakes... I'd like someone to show me one. So far no one has, yet people love to say there are mistakes.

Give us some proof.

Boomat, you are encouraging others to study the original languages... is this what you do? Do you study the original languages? We sure seem to have a tremendous amount of linguistical experts on this forum! LOL

On a side note, Boomat... my great-great grandfather was wounded at Fredicksburg. He was a proud Confederate. Shot in the hand and lost 2 fingers. Never left his post. Died in 1938 at the age of 96. He actually got to hold my father in his arms when my dad was born in 1937.

Krispy

 2006/5/10 9:26
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
Really? Where...? Dont just throw that out there without some proof. Where is the KJV wrong? I think there are a few spots where the translation could be a little more clear, but to say they made mistakes...




Your right Krispy, I have been a little bit harsh when I said they got it wrong, I was thinking more of the lines of what you said, sorry for that miscommunication.


I actually prefer to read the KJV, and the NKJV, mostly the later.
Quote:
Boomat, you are encouraging others to study the original languages... is this what you do? Do you study the original languages?



No! I dont. But everytime I see a king james only person bash the newer versions (keep in mind, I prefer to read KJV, and NKJV) they are comparing it to a text in the KJV. Not to what the original manuscripts say, and what meanings words can have.

Like I said, I dont know if you have heard that John Ankerberg forumn with the editors of the new translations, it made some sense to me, even if the king james people were outnumbered a little bit.


Quote:
On a side note, Boomat... my great-great grandfather was wounded at Fredicksburg. He was a proud Confederate. Shot in the hand and lost 2 fingers. Never left his post. Died in 1938 at the age of 96. He actually got to hold my father in his arms when my dad was born in 1937.




Thats pretty awsome!

I had some of my family in the war. I get to go to the actual battlefield quite often. Its amazing to see the conferderates outnumbered so much, and yet they completely took control of that batttle.

If you come around the area, let me know, I can show you around a little bit. Great History.


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/10 10:07Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Heart issues

Seem to recall that these area's have addressed pretty well by others here in regards to items with the KVJ (I am thinking of Philologos in particular). But again this is largely besides the point.

I do not think the matter is either unimportant nor overly important in many ways. I will qualify that a bit. Do not really have the inclination to go through and list them, but just a couple of examples.

Oswald Chambers - Unless I am mistaken, by and large quoted out of the RSV

A more modern example.
John MacArthur - NKJV

T. Austin Sparks - KJV

Taking this last one first and comparing with a great number of preachers throughout the years, how often have they made their own personal observation or 'corrections' with the text by way of appealing to the Greek or the Hebrew on particular phrases or words and extrapolating what they might see as a better or fuller definition? What are they after but to attempt to bring out [i]meaning[/i]? What does the character reveal of these past saints tell us beyond the written page? Same goes for the many commentaries that attempt to draw out particulars. Are we quite ready to pronounce conspiracy on men of God who have done their best to express through the variations in language the truths of God's Word which is much more than letters strung together.

That is not to say that there hasn't been the obvious attempts to politicize and twist things for selfish ends as has been pointed out here again and again. But wholesale conspiracy amongst the 'versions'? Something suspicious about the suspicions.

This again not to throw away anything, dismiss the argument as useless or unprofitable, it is not that. It is just coming to a point of true honesty in these dealings. What is more grievous is in how so much can be missed by way of skirting the more important issues. Perhaps what I may be addressing is summarized in this; [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10605&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Richard Owen Roberts ~ Repentance From Dead Works[/url]

Is this one just as well, from a spiritual manner standpoint?


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Mike Balog

 2006/5/10 10:23Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Where is the KJV wrong? I think there are a few spots where the translation could be a little more clear, but to say they made mistakes... I'd like someone to show me one. So far no one has, yet people love to say there are mistakes.

Give us some proof.



I know you have heard this before but I want to bring it up again. I have posted a link to crosswalk.com and their page on the use of 'Easter' in Acts 12:4. Notice that the greek word is translated 'Passover' 28 times in the New Testament and 'Easter' once.

Also, don't take my work for it but read the commentaries from such men as John Gill and Matthew Henry and their views on this word.

I want you to know that I love the KJV and I don't want to bash it, but I see it for what it is...a translation of Holy Scripture from the original greek similar to the NIV, NLT, NASB.

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3957&version=kjv

 2006/5/10 10:52Profile









 Re:

JaySaved... I posted some things about the Easter translation on another thread. It's not a misinterpretation. The translators knew exactly what they were doing when they used the word Easter. Go back and read what I posted, or visit some of the KJV websites. All of them address this because it's one of the most common arguments against the KJV. But there is a very simple and reasonable explanation for it.

Krispy

 2006/5/10 11:08









 Re:

Quote:

Combat_Chuck wrote:
Quote:
By 2010 America will be "borderless" --between that of Canada and Mexico.


If by January 1st 2010 this has not come to pass, may I stone you?



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Stever's response:

Nice try, Combat_Chuck: The above is not a prophecy of my own, given to me by God. It is a plan put in place by the Council on Foreign Relations. Will it be totally in place by 2010? I don't know. What I do know is that every person that runs for President seems to be concerned about it (illegal immigration). However, once they are elected, it is no longer important, even though it is responsible for the closing of our hospitals, and the rampant misuse of welfare.


You can find out about this borderless community in a book published by the COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS. It goes into great detail about all of the plans for globalization that are in place for North America, consisting of Canada, America & Mexico—all by the year of 2010

• Building a North American Community
Chair: John P. Manley, Pedro Aspe, William F. Weld
Vice Chair: Thomas P. D'Aquino, Andres Rozental, Robert A. Pastor

Council on Foreign Relations Press
May 2005
175 pages
ISBN 0-87609-348-9
$15.00
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is part of another article, with links below, that address the issue of a borderless America:

Trading Sovereignty for Globalism
The government's apparent dereliction of duty (the securing of America’s borders, that every President since Eisenhower has been derelect in) may be ascribed to a long-term goal of transnationalism or globalism. Bush certainly has his eyes set on such a future.

It was during a 2005 North American Summit with Fox and Paul Martin, then prime minister of Canada, at his Crawford ranch that Bush signed on for a brave new borderless world. According to a Council on Foreign Relations document, a five-year plan involved the "establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community" with a common "outer security perimeter."

As reported at the time by Phyllis Schlafly, "the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) document lays 'the groundwork for the freer flow of people within North America,'" or rather, "a space in which trade, capital, and people flow freely." Last weekend's meeting of the Trilateral Summit in Cancun likely furthered this goal.

While this might sound a bit conspiratorial, it's hard to deny that everything is leading inexorably in that direction. The disregard for border security, the influx of illegal immigrants in numbers unprecedented in history, free trade agreements and increasing foreign ownership are fast producing a transnational hub where once a country stood.

Today, we find ourselves facing a future unlike any previous generation's. It's a future in which America as a sovereign nation could cease to exist.

For the entire article, you can go here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2006/04/05/cstillwell.DTL

If you want to read an eye-opening article, that is very long, but written by the COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, GO HERE:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/63/us_trade_negotiations.html


Cinnamon Stillwell is a San Francisco writer. She can be reached at cinnamonstillwell@yahoo.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!

God bless,

Stever

 2006/5/10 12:03





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