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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Baptized with the Holy Ghost with the Bible evidence (utterance in tongues)

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re:

Once I had a client who was involved in a cult - an ungodly group - who detailed to me how THEY spoke in tongues!! Seems to me one should be very discerning and extrememly careful when you hear people speaking in tongues: what is the source of this gibberish?

The most amazing aspect of tongues - which you might rather consider - is where a minister will be preaching and in his audience there will be a person who cannot understand the language he speaks but is understanding the sermon perfectly. I personally know of a couple preachers/evangelists this has happened to. Now this is awesome, IMHO!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/5/9 8:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The most amazing aspect of tongues - which you might rather consider - is where a minister will be preaching and in his audience there will be a person who cannot understand the language he speaks but is understanding the sermon perfectly. I personally know of a couple preachers/evangelists this has happened to. Now this is awesome, IMHO!



I personally know missionaries who have experienced this. And this is the tongues that happened in Acts Chapter 2.

As for other religions, every major religion has some sect in it that practices tongues. To me... tongues isnt a sign of anything if it isnt accompanied with fruit.

Krispy

 2006/5/9 10:03
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

This is a clip from Chuck Smith's book:

Carisma V. Charismania

I hope you get blessed by it.


"One Result of Tongues
Several years ago, when Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa was quite small, we were meeting on Sunday nights in a clubhouse. On a particular Sunday evening (which was Pentecost Sunday), at the close of the lesson as we were softly worshipping God together, I asked one of the ladies in the fellowship if she would worship God in the Spirit, since I knew that when she spoke in tongues she usually spoke in French. As she began to worship God, I could understand enough of her French to know that she was thanking God for her new life in Christ and the beautiful new song of love He had given her. I thought this was especially beautiful, as she used to be a nightclub singer prior to her conversion. At the conclusion of her worship in the Spirit, my wife began to give the interpretation to the group, and knowing that she does not know French, I was particularly blessed to hear how accurately the worship with the Spirit was being interpreted for the fellowship.

After the meeting one of the young men in the fellowship brought a Jewish girl from Palm Springs for counseling. When we sat down together, she said, "Before we get to my problems, explain to me what was happening here tonight. Why did the one lady speak to God in French, and the other lady translate to the group what she said?" I said, "Would you believe that neither of those ladies knows French?" I told her that I knew for a fact that neither knew French, since one of them was a close friend and the other was my wife. I then showed her in I Corinthians where it speaks of the gift of tongues and interpretation. She then told me that she had lived in France for six years, and that the French spoken was in the perfect accent of what she called the Aristocratic French. She also stated that the translation was perfect. She then said, "I must accept Jesus Christ now, before we go any further."

It was my joy to see her find her Messiah and become a member of the body of Christ. There was a demonstration of the gift of tongues, followed by the true interpretation, which was glorious praise and worship of God. The result was the edifying of the body and in this case the conversion of this Jewish girl."


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/9 10:09Profile









 Re:

I dont have a problem with that, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for Chuck Smith. I believe (and Acts 2 backs me up) that tongues are earthly languages, and not some gibberish called "heavenly" or "angelic" language. No where in scripture are we encouraged to pray in the "tongues of angels". When Paul mentioned "tongues of angels" he was using a that as a way of making a point. He was using an exagerative expression. We do it everyday. Lawyers utilize it all the time. Yet many have made a whole doctrine based on one verse, and that verse has been grossly misinterpreted.

Anyway... I believe that what Chuck Smith is describing here is the legitimate gift of tongues. Not the normal for what we see in the usual Sunday morning circus.

Krispy

 2006/5/9 12:02
GodsPeace
Member



Joined: 2005/9/8
Posts: 60


 Re:

Quote:
I also dont get how people can interpret tongues, when all they say is blah shimei shemei shimei blah, It doesnt make any sense. They use the same sounds and interpret the words in english different. Weird....I know!!!



Thanks Boomat. I have wondered this exact same thing. I have studied several languages over the years, and noticed that a lot of people when speaking in tongues were using a very small set of words to convey something later interpreted in very fluent English. These messages, though using good English, were suspect, however, because they were supposed to edify the believer and the body, but their content was not such that they could. I rarely heard anything afterwards akin to, "Gee! Did you hear that interpretation! I was really blessed!"

A teacher of mine related a story of how he went to a charismatic or pentecostal church with a college buddy. His buddy got up and started speaking in an unknown tongue. When he was finished, a member stood up and began an interpretation. The student said, "That's not the interpretation! I was reciting the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew!" They were shown the door.

There was a lot of pressure put on me to speak in tongues, and various trips laid on me after I was forced out of my Baptist church, to a life of wandering. After seeking and praying and not receiving anything like a second act of grace, I was however, experiencing a second wave of guilt and self-condemnation. At this point, I began speaking in tongues not because of a gift, but out of self defense. I think that many, if they were being truly honest with themselves, would admit that it was not a gift, but an act of the will.

I spoke to a girl in a Vineyard in Bangkok a couple months ago about the importance of prayer in the life of the believer. I had mentioned to her earlier that I didn't agree with the pastor's statement that God wanted everyone to have the gift of prophecy. She said she didn't pray too much, but, when she did, it was mostly in tongues. She said that made her feel good. Mission accomplished, I guess. I told her I had questions about it and that I never had the 'gift', she said that she didn't either, that she just started doing it.


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J. Buzza

 2006/5/9 14:30Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Double post...


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Josh Parsley

 2006/5/9 15:32Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Krispy,

What is the difference of praying in the spirit and praying in the understanding?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2006/5/9 15:32Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Hi Godspeace,

I remember when I was going to a church of God, and everyone encouraged me to get the gift of tongues. So I seeked it, only to forget about Jesus and set my sites on something that didnt mean anything to me.

Then, during a revival, when everyone was falling on the ground screaming and shouting in tongues, the evangelist touched my head, and I fell over speaking in tongues. Did I get that gift, NO. I now believe that this was all used to hypnotize and to get peoples emotions up, so the pastor/ evangelist could take over the show, and get away with saying/doing whatever he/she wanted to do.

As a result, I have repented for making a mockery of Christ.

We as christians should wake up!!! and do something about this.


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/9 16:06Profile
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Quote:
However, I strongly disagree that a case can be made from scripture that the initial sign is tongues, and that if one has not spoken in tongues then they have not received the Baptism.



On Resurrection Sunday the disciples received the Holy Ghost. Jesus breathed on them and said 'Receive ye the Holy Ghost'. (John 20:19-22).
No tongues were spoken but they received the Holy Ghost from Jesus.

One and a half months later they (and others)were filled with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, where Jesus had told them to 'tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH' . The tongues that they spoke when the Spirit fell on them were known and understood by others, (not themselves) ethnic languages, or dialects. Not to be confused with the 'unknown tongue' (singular) spoken by the Corinthians which had to be interpreted (Paul demanded it). Two experiences. Once receiving the Holy Spirit from Jesus and second receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, with utterances in tongues.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".




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Linda

 2006/5/9 17:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What is the difference of praying in the spirit and praying in the understanding?



Preach... I never said people shouldnt pray in tongues. I said scripture does not support the theory of a heavenly or angelic language that believers will speak in.

Krispy

 2006/5/9 18:07





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