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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Martin Luther ?

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 Martin Luther ?

"However that was not to be as it is said that while Luther was just outside of Stotterheim one day after visiting his parents he was caught in a terrific thunderstorm where lightning struck nearby, thus throwing him to the ground and in his terror he called out "St. Anne Help me! I will become a monk!" It's most likely he was considering a life of the cloth before this event, much to his father's chagrin."

Did Luther worship Mary?

'St.Anne = Mary'. Umm, I heard this, but is this true. And how can that still be possible for Luther's salvation? And if Luther was saved, then how do we judge some of today's 'reformed' catholics. Who believe in justification thru faith. but yet hold to Mary and the rest of the saints.

Just a thought, while I was studing him.

 2006/4/30 1:29









 Re: Martin Luther ?

Has anyone studied Luther?

I've seen this quote from NUMEROUS sources, like secular sources. And all the Protestant sources say he cried to God. Which is undoubtably (from my take) a cover up. Because I've heard from numerous people, including Lutherans,say that he worshipped Mary.

Just wondering if anyone has studied Luther. I haven't, I do have a book on him. But, just curious and makes you think as well. :-)

 2006/4/30 16:34
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Have you read the book you have?
Seems this quote was well before hand in the scheme of things...

[url=http://www.online-literature.com/martin-luther/]http://www.online-literature.com/martin-luther/[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

[i]Here I found the benefit of a principle which I invariably adopt, of never pressing upon any human being my sentiments or wishes, without an absolute necessity. If a friend be reduced to the necessity of refusing or complying, he will feel grieved: but if, though with pain to himself, he do anything without being importuned, he has a sweet feeling of love excited by that very act; or, it he refrain from doing what you wish, he feels a love to you for not pressing him against his will.[/i] ~ Charles Simeon

 2006/4/30 17:48Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2730


 Re:

Hi Josh,

Quotes can come from any point in a man's life...they may say something about who he was but not about who he ultimately became.

Apparently several early Prostestants were fuzzy on this particular Mary issue. Quotes from Calvin, Zwingli, Bullinger, and even J. Wesly himself have been gathered from letters or books that indicate these men believed Mary to be at least 'inviolata", or perpetually virgin even after the birth of Jesus.

I'm not sure what to make of some of these quotes but perhaps they indicate how total and ultimate the doctrines of the Catholic Church had become for the whole spiritual theater of Europe during the middle ages. As you already know, Prostestants were just emerging from an unchallenged meta-narritive that had been in place since Constantine...perhaps some of these contradictions can be attributed to the "incompleteness" of Reformational rewiring.

I am of the opinion that the Protest-ant Reformation was in formation for centuries, including the emergence of evangelical preaching...some say it still is.

Interesting topic!

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton
"The most tremendous judgment of God in this world is the hardening of the hearts of men." John Owen

 2006/4/30 18:00Profile









 Re:

He didn't "worship" Mary, he just held a too high esteem for Mary. And both Calvin and Luther, and most people actually post-reformation and pre, esteemed Mary as the "Mother of God." That isn't "heretical" by any means, it is actually correct and biblical:

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (KJV)

However, is holding her to an anymore "blessed" state and veneration than the rest of believers wrong? I would say so. I mean, the only person who is marked as being "greater" than the rest is John the Baptist.

Martin Luther: (These were after he broke from Rome)

"She, the Lady above heaven and earth, must have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist, like a servant girl. What humility! It would surely have been more just to have arranged for her a golden coach, pulled by 4,000 horses, and to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded: 'Here passes the woman who is raised FAR ABOVE all women, indeed above the WHOLE human race.'" (Sermon, July 2, 1532)

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart." (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

"She is the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ... She is nobility, wisdom and holiness personified. We can never honour her enough." (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

 2006/4/30 18:47









 Re:

Mike, ahah!! I was actually reading it there, so then I posted this thread. Funny! (I think quite ironic, it made me smile)

Anywho, this is NOT the first time I've heard this Mary deal.

Esteeming (praise) Mary, I think is quite crazy.

Quote:

jordanamo wrote:

"... 'Here passes the woman who is raised [b]FAR ABOVE all women, indeed above the WHOLE human race.'" [/b](Sermon, July 2, 1532)

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart." (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

"She is the [b]highest woman [/b]and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ... She is nobility, wisdom and holiness personified. We can never honour her enough." (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).



That in bold, causes something to stur inside of me.

From my Logical mind, if I was Luther, and I had a Lightining bolt strike near me and the first thing I cry out is MARY. Hmm, sounds like she has been on his mind, and also is held VERY HIGH (God-wise).

Cause think of it this way. Most people in that situation would either cuss or say 'Oh God!' And...I think, that Luther said 'Oh, Mary (god)' in his mind and out loud.

Does this throw away their teachings? Idk, you deceide from your own personal convictions.

God uses the sand to speak to me, it doesn't matter if Luther is from God or not, EVERYONE/EVERYTHING can/is used by God in one way or another.

I just posted this, as thought provoker. (I like doing that, cause it makes you think, and causes you to check yourself and your beliefs)

Bless you.

 2006/5/1 0:12
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2730


 Re:

For what it's worth I wasn't familiar with this nuance of Protestant history. Your post Josh caused me to spend a little time digging around this afternoon.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton
"The most tremendous judgment of God in this world is the hardening of the hearts of men." John Owen

 2006/5/1 0:58Profile









 Re:

So, what has everyone figured out? Have we gone any further on this topic, or have we sweap it under a rug?

This is something serious. And I don't think this topic should be taken so light. If it is, then we should all embrace our catholic 'brethren'. This is serious. This isn't a 'life-or-death' topic for me, but I think should involve some serious discussion.

 2006/5/15 7:21
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4356
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Martin Luther ?

Notice what Luther said, "...I will become a monk." Luther was a monk for a while before he discovered justification by faith. This incident was prior to his conversion, and is what drove him into being a monk.

A suggestion, you might consider reading either a biography about Luther, or even just for starters, a few pages from a book that survey's church history, which will go over the basic events of Luther's life (such as this event). The internet is a bad way to learn church history.


_________________
http://kingjimmyunauthorized.blogspot.com/ - King Jimmy Un-author-ized (my blog)

 2006/5/15 11:30Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2367
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
This is something serious. And I don't think this topic should be taken so light. If it is, then we should all embrace our catholic 'brethren'. This is serious. This isn't a 'life-or-death' topic for me, but I think should involve some serious discussion.



It almost seems that you consider this issue of Mariology to be the only, or perhaps primary, wedge between Protestants and Catholics. I don't believe this is the case.

I believe Luther's main issue was with the doctrine of justification by faith. This was the point of Luther's revelation concerning Romans 1:17 (the just shall live by faith), and it hammered a firm wedge between scripture and the error of the Roman Catholic church. This matter of how a person is justified in the sight of God must be truly understood. Error will always say a person must "do" something to have peace with God, the truth says the work is "done".

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
If you will here stop and ask yourselves why you are not as pious as the primitive Christians were, your own heart will tell you, that it is neither through ignorance nor inability, but purely because you never thoroughly intended it.
― William Law

 2006/5/15 12:58Profile





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