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W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 i dunno

I believe that i have been misrepresentated.....but it doesnt matter.

MeAgain

I asked the question.....and i got the answer, thankyou.

Q. Can we live perfect?

A. NO

Do i need anything else?

I would like to appoligise for the "tone" in my posts....i assure you that i am not angry etc.....but this is obviuously a problem in my posting sooooo i will desire your prayers to adress this.

Again i would like to clarify my statement to MeAgain..."that is of spirit of the anti-christ"....or along those lines.

I am not withdrawing from that statement....i did not go to any bible college, and i am not a defender of any particular denomination....i only would like to defend the bible....i came to the doctrine of "living like Christ" which has today many different terms for it.....

eg. "sinless perfection" "perfectionism" "entire sanctification" etc.

However i was not influenced by any of the preceding doctrines that came from (Finney, Wesley etc.....i only came to know about them recently.

Back to the point of my usage of the term "of the "anti-christ"....i believe that Jesus and the apostles taught that "you could live like Jesus on this earth"

Anyone who teaches other wise...to me is of the anti-christ unknowingly......

Anyone who does not believe that Jesus came in the flesh.....is of the anti-christ. Flesh like yours and mine....of the seed of abraham. He was man on earth...just read (Phillipians 2) and (Hebrews 1)....

He lived perfect so we could live perfect. He was not on earth a "god man" no he was a man. Why is this linked because if He was a greater being other than flesh on this earth it brings up the following errors.....

1. "Oh we cant live like Him...He was God man we are just fallen sinners."

2. "If i overcome sin...and im just a fallen sinner, and Jesus overcame sin and He was a "god man" it makes me better than Jesus."

3. "How can God die"?

4. "So what if He died for my sins, overcame temptation...He wasnt like us...He doesnt know what it is like to be a normal man"

(Titus 2:12) says that in this present age we should live "GODLY"......AMEN

No impure thing will enter into heaven...so perfection does not occur after death....He has provided everyhting we need right here....

The anti-christ wants lawlessness.....and he tries to lower Gods holy standards...and he succeeds by "champion bible college students" who have learned all this stuff largely from "teachers" instead of God.

(They push there awesome theology's and doctrines and decieve even the elect....because of there vast learning)....................... My attack is not on seminary...its just i believe that you dont need it.

MeAgain....obviously you have much learning and you have learned how to argue as well.....very good..... its just from the word go in your original post you said its not possible come to a state of "sinless perfection"....

everything you wrote underneath that about "dying to self" and "keeping the commandments" to me was a contradiction to that statement.....

Was it at bible college that you learnt that you should place shame on your brothers in Christ, that go against your doctrine? (ref. last post in victory thread)

And did you also learn at bible college that "sinless perfection was a "heresy"?

A "heresy" since when??? Is that from the Pope?

In fact all the religions in the world fight, war and hate over all the different things in their beliefs (they disagree over everything...every aspect of God and practising. etc...

DO YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THE RELIGIONS HAVE IN COMMON?

They all believe that "You cant be perfect!"

Jesus says in (Matthew 5:48) "Ye therfore be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


P.S MeAgain. Im confused first you said "we cant" then you said "you have miss translated it" Which one do you hold?

telios in greek re.....ime greek...esi?

God bless u all!

 2006/4/27 0:10Profile









 Re: i dunno

If we could obtain "sinless perfection" in this life, then Jesus died in vain. We need the forgiveness, and the cleansing he offers through His blood. We are very weak examples of Jesus to begin with. Dont listen to those Legalistic teachers who say we can be "Sinless", because in the same right, they say you will go to hell if you ever sin again! Tony Alamo teaches this and bottles up many a believer with this crazy doctrine. Brother, take heed lest ye fall.....

 2006/4/27 13:44
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re: i dunno

Brother WDJD,

I mean no offenses in what I am about to say.

But, I think you largely miss the point of her post. Or at least what I was able to gather from it. Her post was as much what I believe as well as what you believe. We are now entering into a battle of semantics. We must tread lightly.

You say perfection can be obtained because Christ said "Ye therfore be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Yes Brother, this is very well and good. But GOD does not mean we can have perfection and be ourselves at the same time as being the nature of every human being (in the flesh) on earth regardless how "holy" they are, are in fact sinners. So what must we do to "therfore be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

We must "die to self." Thus sheering off all imperfection in our lives by giving sin to Christ at the cross.

Will we still sin by nature? Yes I believe every last human on earth is a sinner and will still sin even in salvation. But the solution to that is to SEEK the Lord our GOD. Seek HIM in repentance and you will be forgiven. We are only free from sin and enter into "sinless perfection" by being in the Lord and having the Lord preside in us.

The key thing about this topic is that it does not matter. Much like freewill and predestination, while interesting and we feel it would be good to know (being foolish as we are in our flesh). It will not lead anyone to salvation to know they are "destined" or they are "freely able to choose." So I say to you Brothers and Sisters, anyone that would argue and cause strife with you on this topic does not want salvation and tries to put a block before you and GOD, so cast them away.

For the topic of sinless perfection, it matters not.

BROTHERS AND SISTERS! STOP TRYING TO "GET RID OF YOUR SIN!" SEEK GOD! you can NOT find a sinless soul in all the earth. Does it matter if you are able to or not? I say to you anyone who would cause strife over this does not know GOD's heart. CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY GOD CAN HAVE ANY PERFECTION OUT OF ANY HUMAN BEING ON THIS EARTH! Stop chasing the gift of forgiveness! SEEK THE GIVER OF ALL GIFTS! DO NOT CAUSE STRIFE IN THE BODY OR YOU SHALL SEE THE EFFECT AT THE JUDGMENT THRONE!

Now as for your words Brother. Be careful as to what you say. There are many people on this site that may be very new to faith. Do not let your tongue damage that for you will be Judged for it.

You know as well as I do, GOD spoke to us about our tongues and the evil that presides in them.

Brothers and Sisters, fast and pray and seek the Lord our GOD. Stamp eternity on your eyes, end the sensless strife in the body.

Serving the Living GOD,
Scroggins


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Scroggins

 2006/4/27 14:32Profile
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re:

Quote:
He lived perfect so we could live perfect. He was not on earth a "god man" no he was a man. Why is this linked because if He was a greater being other than flesh on this earth it brings up the following errors.....

1. "Oh we cant live like Him...He was God man we are just fallen sinners."

2. "If i overcome sin...and im just a fallen sinner, and Jesus overcame sin and He was a "god man" it makes me better than Jesus."

3. "How can God die"?

4. "So what if He died for my sins, overcame temptation...He wasnt like us...He doesnt know what it is like to be a normal man"



1. We are sinners. We cannot live like him unless we live THROUGH HIM.

2. If you overcome sin it is only through the GRACE OF GOD AND JESUS CHRIST that you are able to. But by nature you are still a sinner and still unworthy of HIS GRACE. You will never be BETTER than Jesus Christ, who is The Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and the End, Who is, Who was and Who is to come. The Son of GOD, GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH.

3. Did HE not CONQUER death? HE rose from the dead; HE rose the dead. His purpose on this earth was death as an ultimate forgiveness for the sin of ALL MEN.

4. GOD being THE CREATOR of ALL MAN knows what it is like to BE MAN. There was no such thing as MAN untill HE THOUGHT IT UP. There for how can you create what you do not know? You cannot.

[Jeremiah 1:5]

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you,
before you were born I set you apart"

Brother, those questions or "problems" that are posed are nothing to be contended with GOD. You are thus limiting the Power and Glory of GOD. That is dangerous my Brother. Tread lightly in your response to my posts. Be aware that you do not damage the young in faith. I pray that GOD speak to you, either to correct me in my wrong or to show you the light and allow you to cast out the error in your thoughts.

My heart burns for you Brother, you will be in my prayers.

In Christs Love Brother,
Scroggins


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Scroggins

 2006/4/27 15:36Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

For sure it is only by Christ that we can now live perfect....that is part of my argument....

He is perfect and we are not. So allow The Perfect One to make your way perfect, give you His perfect will, live His perfection through your life that you surrender to Him. etc..

I am not stating that we can do it by ourselves... no way we will fail.......BUT if we allow The Perfect One to live in us...why not?

SURRENDER!

Be like Paul....dead to himself, dead to the world and the world dead to him.....be alive in the spirit.....

Well there is so much more that i could post but "scrogins" i woul like you to read just one verse for me (Titus 2:15)....your theology is a very relaxed one to say the most of it....

I disagree in short. My dear friend Jesus came as a man.....live like he lived...walk like He walked....and perhaps read (1 John) the whole epistle.

I have typed too much on this matter for now...YES THERE IS VICTORY FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS!

God bless you all!

 2006/5/1 1:22Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

(Romans 6:2) .....How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 2006/5/1 1:25Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

"Two kinds of people, those that are dead to sin and those dead in sin."
-Leonard Ravenhill

"If you sin every day in word, thought, or deed you'll go to hell at the end of your life."
-Leonard Ravenhill

 2006/5/1 2:07Profile
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re:

Brother WDJD,

I am having some problems with your understanding of who Christ was. Maybe you can enlighten me on who Christ was, why he came to be, and who he claimed to be.

Here is something to think about.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Rev 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17-18
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Blessings Brother,
Scroggins


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Scroggins

 2006/5/1 11:35Profile
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Quote:
Brothers and sisters! Stop trying to "get rid of your sin". SEEK GOD!



Amen and Amen. I spent 25 years in the New Age movement trying to get perfect. We must let go of everything. It took me quite a long time to realize this. He will gloriously do in us everything that needs to be done, if we let go and TRUST AND OBEY.


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Linda

 2006/5/1 15:34Profile
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re: Word is GOD, Word is flesh

Quote:
Anyone who does not believe that Jesus came in the flesh.....is of the anti-christ. Flesh like yours and mine....of the seed of abraham. He was man on earth...just read (Phillipians 2) and (Hebrews 1)....

He lived perfect so we could live perfect. He was not on earth a "god man" no he was a man.



[u][b]Hebrews 1:1-14 (KJV)[/b][/u]

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

(In this dear Brother, notice verses 8-10, GOD is speaking to Christ. HE calls THE SON (Jesus Christ) GOD. "8But unto the [b]Son[/b] he saith, Thy throne, O [b]God[/b], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.")
____________________________________


[u][b]Phillipians 2:9-11(KJV)[/b][/u]

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

(And in this Brother, we see that GOD exalted Christ our Lord and gave HIM a name above every other name. It says that Christ is Lord and heaven and earth alike should bow to HIM.)
____________________________________


[u][b]John 1:1-5 (KJV)[/b][/u]

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
____________________________________

[u][b]John 1:14-18 (KJV)[/b][/u]

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

____________________________________

Brother,

Was Jesus Christ just a man? I submit to you that THE WORD (which is GOD) says that Jesus Christ (THE WORD made flesh) is GOD.

Brothers and Sisters, do not listen to your own mind, it is always decieved, do not listen to your own heart, for it also is always decieved by Satan. But rather, trust in the Lord our GOD Jesus Christ to be your heart and mind. So that you will be decieved by Satan no more. Call out to our Father in heaven to deliver you from your flesh, to cut the very thing that makes you "you" out of your being. To conform to the likeness of Jesus Christ.

In Christ,
Scroggins


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Scroggins

 2006/5/2 12:03Profile





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