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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Love God. THEN do what you want.

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lastblast
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Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

I believe the giving of the desires of the heart there refers not just to requests being granted but to the willingness that God gives us to do His will.



Amen!! That is EXACTLY what came to my mind when I read the opening post. Blessings in Him, Cindy


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Cindy

 2006/4/26 19:23Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: What is love?

Quote:

Warrior4Jah wrote:
If one would change the definition of love to suit his/her own interrests/motives.


Q. Does a rose by another name smell as sweet?
A. Not if it's a cabbage:-)

If we "redefine" the "word" love to mean something other than it's not, then it's no longer love.

*Edit* Love is best defined as "I [b]want[/b] you to have what you [b]want[/b] more than I [b]want[/b] what I [b]want[/b], to the point that I might miss out on what I [b]want[/b]". This defintion of the word that defines the first statement, brings the second into a place of safety. *Edit*
Quote:
One could easily put his/her own interpretation on it that is either biblically or unbiblically. Personally I think its a bad idea to use this quote without any explanation.


I do agree with this, although I also think that sometimes we have to trust that God is better with His explainations than we are.

This quote cuts to the heart of ever "safety net" that we can tend to set up to "protect ourselves" from God's commandments. Consider 1 John 1:8-10. This could be interperated as "Come clean and let God clean you up. What, do you think you can do a better job?"

Consider Eve add "neither touch" to God's commandment to not "eat" the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Sounds wise. If you don't touch, how can you eat? However if the touch doesn't kill you, you might think that you can get away with eating.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/4/26 19:34Profile
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 Re: About the quote...

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
It is an actual quote (I don't know the source) - that I feel deserves our thoughts.



May I recommend the following sermon series by Norman Grubb that, I feel adequately explains this quote (it's actually quoted in it)?

[b][u]Meaning of life[/u][/b]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4996]1. God Only[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4997]2. Where We Begin[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5120]3. Free To Be Ourselves[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5121]4. From Negative To Positive Believing[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5122]5. From Romans 7 to Romans 8[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5123]6. I Will Do It Through You[/url]
I ask that you withold your opinion until you finish hearing the series, as there are many potentially volitile statements that he makes (if you can understand him:-)) but he does clarify as he goes, leaving you with a deep understanding of what it is to "Love God and do what you like."


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/4/26 19:50Profile
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Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: What is love...

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
It is an actual quote (I don't know the source) - that I feel deserves our thoughts.



May I recommend the following sermon series by Norman Grubb that, I feel adequately explains this quote (it's actually quoted in it)?

[b][u]Meaning of life[/u][/b]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4996]1. God Only[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4997]2. Where We Begin[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5120]3. Free To Be Ourselves[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5121]4. From Negative To Positive Believing[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5122]5. From Romans 7 to Romans 8[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5123]6. I Will Do It Through You[/url]
I ask that you withold your opinion until you finish hearing the series, as there are many potentially volitile statements that he makes (if you can understand him:-)) but he does clarify as he goes, leaving you with a deep understanding of what it is to "Love God and do what you like."


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/4/26 20:01Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: choice and desire

Quote:
There is an interesting scholarly book called Analyzing Bach Cantatas that explores how Bach’s musicology was ultimately driven by his theology.


This is of great interest to me.

I wish to add a comment: Bach's theology as expressed in music has worldwide implications. Think of the African songs, like Kumbaya, and the central Amerian gospel songs, like Halle Halle Halle - they are all built on the same harmonic and scale structures that Bach developed. When missionaries went into these remote areas years ago, they brought their music to them: the very system developed by Bach. Thanks to Bach, we can say that music is a universal language.

------
Whether we want to admit it or not, we do what we want to all the time. We own our choices. neither God, nor others make us do anything. We choose more than we realize.

Love God and then do what you want - in other words: then make any choices that you desire.

Consider this:
The more we love God, the freer we are to make good choices and have good desires.

It is our diminished view of God that causes us to restrict ourselves to a small parameter of choices and desires. Legalism puts the freedon of choice into bondage. It also squelches good desires.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Diane


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Diane

 2006/4/26 22:16Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
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 Re:

Quote:
The more we love God, the freer we are to make good choices and have good desires.



Diane, I think your statement here is analagous to Paul's words in Romans 8. "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death....the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

I feel like what we are talking about is sanctifying ourselves to the Lord first and formeost. I know many like to entangle sanctification with a type of objective human perfection, but I think this is a legalistic (and therefore carnal) understanding of the matter.

Tonight my little daughter gave me a great picture of loving God...

I was working a little late in our home office to meet a deadline when she brought me in a plate of hot food. I complimented her on how kind she was being and she acted pleasantly surprised. She gave me a hug and told me "I love serving you daddy!" (Wow...)

Now my little girl is technically "immature" in that she has a lot of growing to do...yet her love is not partial or calculating in the fashion of many adults who are more mature and sophisticated. For instance with some children, including my own, you have to "lay down the law" constantly around the house to get them to obey. Yet, my daughter will exhibit a desire to please her mom and I without always being told. (Well, maybe now and then!) This is how I see loving God and sanctification as being linked...mere legalists may know the fine details of the law but those who live sanctified according to the Spirit are seeking to become familiar with their Father's heart.

If I may be so bold, I have seen that a hallmark characteristic of those who love God, is how loving God is what satisfies their hearts. This love is their "soul security" so to speak. In contrast we know many who profess love and spiritual inspiritation, but their minds are continually on other objectives. Michael Card wrote a song that spoke so deeply to me a few years ago. Speaking in the Lord's vocie he wrote, "Trust in Me. Keep your life free, from what the love of money will do. Am I not enough for you?"

Now recently I saw a Christian book with an absurd paradoxial title: "Humility---the Pathway to Power." I think this book represents much of our thinking today. Many talk about loving God as the pathway to blessing...which in my experience leads to all kinds of dissolusionment. People tithe to recieve favor from God, they serve the church to recieve spiritual promotion,...well we all know the drill becuase we were saved from this thinking ourselves. The understanding is that loving God is a lever that you pull to get what you really love. We want to know what our duty is so that we can finally find favor with God...

If we could only encourage each other to live according to the spontaneous and selfless love of the Spirit we would probably have to spend less time arguing over the fine minutia of doctrine or testing the tolerable limits of the legal code.

Great line of inquiry Diane...very challenging to me.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/4/27 0:10Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Let God love you

Quote:
I saw a Christian book with an absurd paradoxial title: "Humility---the Pathway to Power.


It’s just as absurd as the title of this thread! It all depends on the grid we think through: God-centered, or me-centered. It's hard to know the author's intent without reading the book. That is the risk of such titles.

Then again, that is the risk of the entire Bible. It can be used as a foundation of very selfish ends, if the reader doesn't know the intent of the Author.

God’s love is risky and vulnerable because it meant giving us freedom to choose. Thus God risked being rejected and misunderstood.

We are FREE to respond to him in love, or try to earn divine favor (legal-centered thinking) Why does almost everyone choose the later?

Why does the freedom to do whatever you want seem so scary?

Why is there such a fear of authentic creativity among God’s people? People just copy the religious trends. Really they want to do what everybody else is doing.... even while praying for God's will. Is this because God refuses to turn anyone into automatons?
***

MC, the tender story of your daughter's excercise of her free will can’t be complete without adding one comment: She KNEW the love of her father. (Could I be right?)

We need to learn to let God love us. That takes trust.

Diane


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Diane

 2006/4/27 8:27Profile
DomSpencer
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Joined: 2006/4/5
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 Re:

Compton wrote:

Quote:
This is how I see loving God and sanctification as being linked...mere legalists may know the fine details of the law but those who live sanctified according to the Spirit are seeking to become familiar with their Father's heart.



Quote:
If I may be so bold, I have seen that a hallmark characteristic of those who love God, is how loving God is what satisfies their hearts.



]
Quote:
Many talk about loving God as the pathway to blessing......

.....The understanding is that loving God is a lever that you pull to get what you really love. We want to know what our duty is so that we can finally find favor with God...



Me, oh my! What a rich few words! Thank you.

A couple of years ago I was looking out over the River Humber here in England, on my way to work. I had many things on my mind, not least the constant conundrum that rattles around my heart: "How can I please God in my life? What does God want from me?" I may not have actually been thinking that at that exact moment, but God surely knew these things were a constant trouble to me. Then, in an instant, I saw a small flock of water birds that made a low sweep over the water, and God spoke to me - to the deepest recesses of my heart. I did not hear a voice, but it would have had no less impact had I done so. He said to me "All you need to do is love Me". And when He put that thought in my heart, I knew that what He meant was
[b][color=CC3366][font=Georgia]ALL[/font][/color][/b]I need to do.

That's it.
In every walk of life.
In every thing I do or say.
In every plan I make.
Every thought I entertain.
Every relationship I have.
My present and my future, and for all eternity.

[b][color=993366][font=Georgia]ALL[/font][/color][/b].......

I need to do.....

is love Him.

(And know as a reality His love for me - my words)

All I need to know now is how to do that in practice!!!


Dom


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Dominic Spencer

 2006/4/27 8:32Profile
Josiah777
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 Re: Love God, and do what He who sent me wants

Diane,

This was an interesting post and I have enoyed hearing the dialog that has stemmed from it. I think it's safe to say that "Love God then do what you want" is not a good standalone statement, but needs to be wrapped up with a lot of context to make sense of it in a God-pleasing way.

One habit that has greatly helped me with statements is to line it up against the life and teaching of the Lord Jesus Himself. Is this something I can hear Him saying? Is this something I see in His life? The heartbeat of Jesus that stands out to me, anyway, was His frequent statements, "I have not come to do My will but the will of He that sent Me," or "I always do those things that please Him," or "The words I speak are not Mine but He who sent Me" or "I can do nothing of Myself." All that Jesus said and did was "tethered" to the One who sent Him--the Father. They pointed to a restful dependence upon His heavenly Father. It left its clear stamp on everything He was about. I think that's why we don't have any Gospel sayings of His where He said, "I do what I want" or something to that effect.

I hear your point of doing out of "ought to" versus "get to"...but Jesus delighted to do the will of the Father (Ps. 40:8). When we're in Jesus and our hearts are one, we'll have the same attitude towards doing God's will joyfully and cheerfully. His commandments won't be grievous and burdensome.

If I was to revise your statement a bit in light of Jesus' life and words, I would recommend: "Love God, and do what He who sent me wants." How's 'dat? :-)


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Ken Marino

 2006/4/27 9:19Profile
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 Re: Why redefine?

Quote:

Josiah777 wrote:
This was an interesting post and I have enoyed hearing the dialog that has stemmed from it. I think it's safe to say that "Love God then do what you want" is not a good standalone statement, but needs to be wrapped up with a lot of context to make sense of it in a God-pleasing way.
....
If I was to revise your statement a bit in light of Jesus' life and words, I would recommend: "Love God, and do what He who sent me wants." How's 'dat? :-)



The only problem with this revision of the origional quote is that there is an implied "bregrudgingness" (is that a word) around it. A kind of a "He wants me to do it...not me", going on.

Consider the initial lack of context given, how many would have been as impacted by the statement after contending with it, only to realise that they agreed with it. There have been times in my walk that God has offended my sence of "how things should be done" in order to show me "how they are" (anyone who has spent any time with or listening to Art Katz, for example, would be aquainted with this feeling).

Diane,

Thank you for raising this. It needs to be stated, because I for one, forget it often. And to those who object to the wording of the initial quote, consider the fact that no one seems to have taken it as an opportunity to excuse licentiousness (did I spell that right). The danger isn't so much in the second half being misunderstood, but the first. And lets face it, there are many who believe that they "Love God" who when push comes to shove "hate Him" in reality.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/4/27 9:35Profile





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