grace teaches us to deny ungodliness....
If you seek His face u have to be holy, if you are holy u will seek His face.
"Be ye holy as i am holy"
my friends it seems as if u are more scared of holiness than you are of sin....
u said "seek not sinless perfection" phhh did u not know that God is sinless and God is perfect......
Again i say....
God is perfect, so let Him rule your life...surrender!
...For sure its only by Him that we are made Holy..only by Him....but you GOT to "beleieve it" and you have GOT to "want it"
seems as if some dont beleieve it nor want it....therefore God wont give it to you!
May the Lord bless us all!
| 2006/5/3 2:21||Profile|
my friends it seems as if u are more scared of holiness than you are of sin....
We should be as afraid of self rightousness as we are of sin.
Both originate from the same tree. The tree of the knowlege of good and evil.
We should labor for the food which does not perish. That is the Fruit of the Tree of Life which is Christ.
True repentance is not from evil to good but from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil to the Tree of Life.
True repentance is from a self centered independant life apart from God, apart from Christ. True repentance is from Self to Christ.
True holiness is not from ourseves. True holiness is the holiness of Christ wrought into our being by the Spirit of the Living Christ.
"YOu have died to the law through the body of Christ that you might be joined to Another, even to Him who was raised from the dead that you might bear fruit to God."
Romans 7 and 8 give us 4 laws. The law of God, the Law of good in our mind, the Law of sin and death in our members and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
THe law of sin and death in our flesh cannot be overcome by the law of good in our minds. Rather our attempts at obeying the Law of God ends in stirring up the law of sin and death in our flesh which takes us captive.
It is only through the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that we are set from from the law of sin and death.
IT is only as we live by faith in the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us that we find, "it is no longer I who live but Christ lives within me.
The fruit of our union with the Resurrected Christ is a holy life. The fruit of holiness is produced by living by the living Christ who indwells us.
Apart from the indwelling Christ, the only thing we can produce is self rightousness which puffs us up, causes us to believe we are superior to others, and causes us to boast in our own holiness. We become self rightouse religious critical pharasees.
But we are the true circomcision who worship God in spirit, glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.
God rules us not by outward rules and regulations. God rules us by Life. His Life within us. His Kingdom is a Kingdom of Life, entered into by the New Birth, and He rules it by His indwelling life.
"As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."
| 2006/5/6 11:42||Profile|
| Re: ...If you have victory over sin|
Here is a hymn by [i]Charles Wesley[/i], which gives an optimistic view of victory, taken from Deuteronomy xxxiii. 26 - 29.
1 NONE is like Jeshurun's God,
So great, so strong, so high,
Lo! he spreads his wings abroad,
He rides upon the sky!
Israel is his first-born son;
God, the Almighty God, is thine;
See him to thy help come down,
The excellence divine.
2 Thee the great Jehovah deigns
To succour and defend;
Thee the eternal God sustains,
Thy Maker and thy friend:
Israel, what hast thou to dread?
Safe from all impending harms,
Round thee and beneath are spread
The everlasting arms.
3 God is thine; disdain to fear
The enemy within:
[b]God shall in thy flesh appear,
And make an end of sin[/b]; - - EDIT: Hebrews 2:14 - 16, [b]Romans 8:11[/b]
God the man of sin shall slay,
Fill thee with triumphant joy;
God shall thrust him out, and say,
"Destroy them all, destroy!"
4 All the struggle then is o'er,
And wars and fightings cease,
Israel then shall sin no more,
But dwell in perfect peace;
All his enemies are gone;
Sin shall have in him no part;
Israel now shall dwell alone,
With Jesus in his heart.
5 In a land of corn and wine
His lot shall be below;
Comforts there, and blessings join,
And milk and honey flow;
Jacob's well is in his soul;
Gracious dew his heavens distil,
Fill his soul, already full,
And shall for ever fill.
6 Blest, O Israel, art thou!
What people is like thee?
Saved from sin, by Jesus, now
Thou art, and still shalt be;
Jesus is thy seven-fold shield,
Jesus is thy flaming sword;
Earth, and hell, and sin, shall yield
To God's almighty Word.
7 God's almighty Word shall stand:
Thine enemies shall fall,
Fade away at His command,
And sink and persih all:
Liars shall they all be found,
All who cried, "It cannot be,
Sin should ever quit its ground,
And have no place in thee."
8 Christ shall make thee free indeed
When He appears within:
Thou on self and pride shalt tread,
On all the strength of sin;
Thou shalt more than conquer it;
Thou shatl see it all depart,
See it dead beneath they feet,
No longer in they heart.
9 God the gracious God and true,
Hath spoke the faithful word;
He the mighty work shall do:
Our trust is in the Lord;
He the mountain shall remove,
He the sinner shall restore,
He shall perfect me in love,
And I shall sin no more.
[i](Original tune, 'Jeshurun', not available online)[/i]
There is also this, which I posted with tunes in praise, yesterday.
A life of overcoming,
A life of ceaseless praise,
Be this thy blessed portion
Throughout the coming days.
The victory was purchased
On Calvrys cross for thee,
Sin shall not have dominion,
The Son hath made thee free.
And wouldst thou know the secret
Of constant victory?
Let in the Overcomer,
And He will conquer thee!
Thy broken spirit taken
In sweet captivity,
Shall glory in His triumph
And share His victory.
Though all the path before thee
The host of darkness fill,
Look to thy Fathers promise,
And claim the victory still.
Faith sees the heavenly legions,
Where doubt sees naught but foes,
And through the very conflict
Her life the stronger grows.
More stern will grow the conflict
As nears our Kings return,
And they alone can face it
Who this great lesson learn:-
That from them God asks nothing
But to unlatch the door
Admitting Him who through them,
Will conquer evermore.
[i]Freda Hanbury Allen[/i]
Tune: New York (Webb)
[i](Stand up, stand up, for Jesus.)[/i]
I think the above words are most useful as templates, which allow us to bring our grasp of the gospel into line with God's word and their writers' testimonies.
There is no short cut to real victory, especially in the areas of our lives where it has most eluded us. It is [i]there[/i] we must be the most meticulous in analysis and apply [u]truth[/u] most consciously and rigorously.
| 2006/5/7 9:10|
| Re: To W_D_J_D|
You are absolutely right. I don't respond to this lounge very often, but I would like to say I agree with you on your response. The bible has absolutes in it, and just because we can't live like it says don't shoot someone else down who does. The perfect one lives in us, and the renewing of the mind has to take place. it's not just all about being born again spiritually, it's almost sounds like gnosticism were the more knowledgeable one has, the more spiritual one is, and the sin's of body don't matter, because God doesn't see them because we are so spiritual. The renewing of the mind, the way we think has to be renewed, or we remain a doubleminded person, with this two personality thing going on the rest of our life. I don't believe it nor will I ever. And no I'm not there yet but I believe I can attain what he has for me on this earth, not counting what there is to come. May God Bless you in Christ. David
| 2006/5/7 10:07||Profile|
The perfect one lives in us, and the renewing of the mind has to take place. it's not just all about being born again spiritually, it's almost sounds like gnosticism were the more knowledgeable one has, the more spiritual one is, and the sin's of body don't matter, because God doesn't see them because we are so spiritual. The renewing of the mind, the way we think has to be renewed, or we remain a doubleminded person, with this two personality thing going on the rest of our life. I don't believe it nor will I ever. And no I'm not there yet but I believe I can attain what he has for me on this earth, not counting what there is to come. May God Bless you in Christ. David
This is good. But we need to distinguish between the gnostic belief in perfection through knowlege and the perfection we experience through our increasing knowlege of Christ.
That is, the Bible is full of prayers for our growth in knowlege of Christ.
Paul's prayer for the Ephesians is that they be given a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowlege of Him. That they might know what is the hope of their calling and what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the Saints.
Our growth in Life depends on our increasing in the knowlege of Christ. If we don't know this One who has redeemed us and who indwells us, how can we exercise faith to lay hold of Him, and to apply Him and to grow up in all things into Him who is the Head?
Tozer says, 'remember we know only so much of Christ that the Spirit reveals and we have only as much of Christ as the Spirit imparts) (Why the Holy Spirit is Given) - A. W. Tozer
We need the revealion of the Spirit to know the length, the breadth, the hight and the depth and to know the knowlege surpassing Love of Christ that we might be filled up unto all the fullness of God.
Pauls burdon in Ephesians 4 is that: Until we all arive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowlege of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
THe issue is not who has more knowlege or who knows what. But rather the issue is to press on to know the living Christ in a fuller measure, to know more of His Person, His work, and all His fullness and the greatness of His power to us who believe.
That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death...
OUr great need is not to do this or that, but to have more revelation of Christ. We need to see Him as the answer to our every need. We need our eyes opened and we need Light from the Bible to see Christ in it in all His attributes, all His work, all His rich supply, and the more of Him we know, the more our faith is able to lay hold of Him and the more of Him we are able to experience in our daily lives.
The very revelation by the Spirit of Christ to us enables us to enter in to the experience of Christ.
It is only as the Spirit unvails our conditon before God, our sin, and our need of Christ and only as He unveils Christ crucified for our sins, and resurrected from the dead, that we are able to believe into Him and be regenerated.
And it is only as we gain more knowlege of Christ, more of HIm is unveiled to us by the Spirit in the Word, that we are able to enter into more experience of Christ.
This is not gnosticism, This is just the Bible. And the way we grow in the knowlege of Christ is by contacting Him, by calling on Him, and applying to Him as we come to His Word. And in this way the Spirit opens up the Word, reveals more of Christ to us, and gives us faith to believe in Him more, to experience Him more and to bring us into oneness with Him.
| 2006/5/11 9:22||Profile|