SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: Read My Signature

[b]Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. [/b]


The reason it sounds "different" to you W-D-J-D, is because you are the one who has been taught the error of the ages.

First, you must learn the Greek. There is more than one word that is translated as "perfect".

I don't like "teaching men", so I withheld correcting you in my first response to you, but now I won't bother with that fear of teaching a "man".

We are to be "comformed to the IMAGE OF CHRIST".
And THAT is what I wrote.

If you think that we are destined to just stop "this or that" and that makes us "perfect" than you are the one who has been fed the deception of the ages and I'll say that again.

Sin means - "To Miss The Mark".

So what is the "mark" sir ?

The "mark" is the absolute IMAGE OF CHRIST HIMSELF.

When you have become identical to HIM, [b]THEN AND ONLY THEN ARE YOU "PERFECT".[/b]

That is why the "doctrine of sinless perfection" is a complete heresy and will be so until we see HIM.

Just type it into Google, even the Calvary Chapel site will tell you that is complete and outrageous heresy.

Does that mean that we promote sin ? Paul said, God Forbid !

But you cut yourself short in more ways than can be numbered, if you "think" you are sinless.

Paul said he was not perfect and had not "attained".

You distain "scholarship" and that is why you are so nasty right now and foolishly making statements that may actually risk your own salvation. Read Galatians. And learn some Greek, because the verses in 1 John are talking about a "consistent lifestyle of sin" except for verses 8-10, that apply to ALL of us.

We are to "WALK IN THE SPIRIT" ... and that is what I wrote about in my first post.

That means to be 100% dependent on and leaning on Him and to have our ears "continuously" "hearing" Him every second of the day and "continuously" "following" ... as that is the Greek Grammar in John 10.

Can you sin when you are doing that - NO !

If you obey the Two Commandments to Love God & others, can you sin while practicing that love to both - NO !

But, 1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Your meager "don't sin" doctrine is what's held back the Church for centuries from "walking in the Spirit" and why Paul wrote Romans 8 and Galatians.

The "GOAL" is His Exact Image being 'formed' in us and His Love manifested ... but if you limit it to just "not sinning" ... to one man, one thing is "sin" and to another it is not.

That is called legalism and is the sin that Jesus condemned the Pharisees for. And I mean REALLY CONDEMNED.

You CANNOT LIST SINS ... because ANYTHING that is not ORIGINATED FROM HIS SPIRIT AND COMES FROM US IS SIN .... [b]IF[/b] you really want to get to the brass tacks of it all.
All our obedience in the flesh and good deeds in the flesh are the wood, hay and stubble that will be burnt up at the judgment.

The road to hell 'is' paved with good intentions.

He wants "Spirit and Truth" only.

The "perfect" that is most used in the N.T. is when one comes up to the "measure of his present knowledge" and Not how you are using it.

God looks at the heart .... YOU DON'T.

Do you NOT MOVE until you hear the Holy Spirit say move ???? Then if not .... YOU ARE SINNING.

Walking autonomous of Him or His Spirit (same thing) is "sin" sir.

But we are to "strive" to enter in and with Paul, "Press on to the [u]mark[/u]" for that "desire for His Likeness" will we be judged.

I think I've said enough to you.

Judge on sir.

 2006/4/26 4:52









 Re:

And again - Thank you Ken, "O" and Dave, for not throwing a bunch of Pharisitical damnation at our brother Joe.

Whatever is not done in and by FAITH IS DEAD.

Without FAITH, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him.

We lean in dependence on His Spirit because we have the FAITH to know HE SAID HE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE TO GUIDE US - EVERY STEP OF THE WAY - BECAUSE "HE" IS FAITHFUL WHO CALLED US AND HE WILL DO IT. :-)

Hebrews 6 and 10 and 1 John speaks of those who make a 'lifestyle' of sin 'after' knowing Christ.

So Murray ... that verse in Heb 10 does not apply to you.

All that we have is by Grace through Faith and I challenge anyone to show us differently.

That is why Jesus got so furious at the Legalists, because they robbed the FAITH THAT SAVES from the people.

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

How did we "receive Christ Jesus the LORD" ???

By FAITH - so continue to walk in that same way.
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

Love Him with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength. We Love Him because He First Loved us.

Hebrews 11 again.
:-)
[b]AMEN[/b]

 2006/4/26 5:19









 Re:In case you missed this from wyattearp.

Quote:

wyattearp wrote:
Joe,
This is the first post I have ever done in my life but your question "How do I get victory" is prompting my post. I hope this helps. To get victory over sin requires faith, "This is the victory which overcomes the world, even our faith". Conversely unbelief keeps us from victory. I had allways thought God would do this for others but not me because I did not really believe that He loved me as He said He did. This was the source of my unbelief. I secretly held this doubt about Him all my life. Unbelief comes not from a lack of credible evidence but from a willingness to believe a lie. If He was not truthfull about His love for me than the fault was in Him and not in me. I had done all I could to try to persuade Him i.e. prayed for victory, but He would not do His part. The problem was He was not telling me my part was to pray, but my part was to believe. And not just believe something in general but to believe something specific. That He loved me and gave HIMSELF for ME. Joe I believe that when the Bible says the heart it means the will. So when God brought to my heart through a book I was reading that I was to believe His love for me really did mean me I willed right then and there that I was going to take Him at His word and would listen to nothing that sought to contradict His word. I didn't get half way out of the room before this thought came to me "That doesn't really mean..." and there I cut it off. Loved me means ME! My reply to your question "How do I get victory" then would be this. There is in you a willingness to believe something that is not true and/or an unwillingness to believe something God has said. I do not know what that might be but you do. Settle that once and for all.
"He that hath received His testimony hath set his seal that God is true". John 3:33





Welcome to the forum wyattearp !

 2006/4/26 5:51
teamtoucan
Member



Joined: 2005/12/27
Posts: 42
Queanbeyan, Canberra, NSW, Australia

 Re: DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

Hi Joe,

God has certainly given me victory over besetting sins that I had. How? By faith, that is, by believing that when the Bible says that God will not allow any temptation to overcome me, but that he will always provide a way out, well, he means it, and Faith says that I believe what God says, and Faith says, Thank you God for doing the impossible in me.

And He has done it for me. Victory.

Here is what Ravenhill has to say on this:
With all this limitless resource to inherit in this life, why then,
do we settle for minimum spirituality? These scriptures just quoted
shatter all our excuses for carnal Christianity and explode all our
feeble excuses on bumper-sticker evangelism: "Christians aren't perfect,
just forgiven." Some backslider must have written that one.

Sinning is not permitted to believers. "Whosoever is born of God doth
not commit sin." (I John 3:9) Not that it is impossible to sin; but it
is, by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit, possible not to sin.
John again shouts the triumphant note, "Greater is He that is in you
than he that is in the world." (I John 4:4)

God, then, has made it possible for you and me to have victory over
the world, the flesh and the devil!
(End of quote from Ravenhill)

God expects us to expect Him to do the humanly impossible all the time. That’s what faith is. Keep thinking about how powerful God is, and Believe that He is willing to give YOU that power in conquering any sin, through the power of the Blood of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord!

God bless,

Brian


_________________
Brian and Tracey Clack

 2006/4/26 6:21Profile









 Re:


Dear Annie,

Is it really necessary to flare up every time someone challenges you? I realise you may not realise you do, but, that is how it reads.

It would really have been great if you could have gone back and re-read your post - not to re-justify what you said the first time - but [i]looking[/i] for the reasons anyone saw something different in it. Then simply [u]accept[/u], that no matter what you [i]thought[/i] you were saying, you did give a different message to someone reading your words from the background of [i]their[/i] personal experience - of God - not just their point of view; knowing it is the same God who speaks to you..... and give them some respect.

I'm really put off when you start posting chunks of scripture in bold, because it looks like you're raising your voice, which, if you were [i]reading[/i] it to someone you would not do. So, I've posted my testimony in the thread accidentally started by wyattearp.

I also should say, I have noticed how you introduce discussion about sinless perfection, every time victory over sin is mentioned. Is this necessary? It wasn't the question asked.

Therefore, I agree with W_D_J_D that it muddies the waters, (my paraphrase) because it [b]looks very like[/b] you [i]are[/i] saying, there is [u]no[/u] such thing as victory over sin. And without doubt, that [u]is[/u] an unscriptural stance.

So I have sympathy with this statement,

Quote:
Just because you have not experinced true victory do not shoot someone down for seeking it.

because I, too, have felt this is the [i]underlying message[/i] of what you have posted in this thread (and others, previously).

If we are wrong, please re-consider [i]how[/i] you reply to the topic of victory over sin, so that it answers the question in hand [i]so clearly[/i], there is no confusing message.....

So, we were [u]all[/u] invited [u]not[/u] to participate in this thread [u]unless[/u] we had a testimony, and I suspect you have plenty of personal examples to choose from, because you mention Spirit and Truth a lot. Please share how this has worked for you in a practical example (of overcoming) from your walk with the Lord, that we may learn all learn from [i]your experience[/i]? Thank you. :-)

 2006/4/26 6:59









 Re:

dorcas, did you read the "whole" of what transpired on page one, because I did not "flare up because someone challenged "me" ..... W_D_J_D's First post to me was .....

Quote:

W_D_J_D wrote:
ok, in resonse to MeAgain's response....

do not mock God and His word. (all things are possible with God) (ask and you shall recieve) (fight untill bloodshed against sin) (you shall be perfect)

Just because you have not experinced true victory do not shoot someone down for seeking it.

You are teaching contrary to the word of God MeAgain, im sorry but it is simply the spirit of the anti-christ that is behind you....i did not read your whole post because it from the start is against scripture...... you said

Quote:
If you mean "sinless perfection" in this lifetime, I couldn't say a word about that, because it's not attainable in this present state we are in.



That is not teaching other people to observe everything that Jesus taught you. The lawless one is coming very soon (2 Thes. 2) and he has many followers in the church today paving the way for him.

Jesus taught you must be perfect. why do people say "you cant be"????? when Jesus says "be"?

MeAgain what about 2 Corinthians 7:1????

what about titus 2:12???? in this present world???

you are causing a young christian or a strugling christian to RELAX because it is "too hard" for YOU to keep God's commandments....

Luke 17:1-2
Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Listen not to the false prophets/preachers/people who commend your sin weather directly or inderectly......

Col 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Heb 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Leonard Ravnehill said
Quote:
I'm not saying that it's impossible to sin. I'm saying that it is possile not to sin."



Can i also suggest that MeAgain that that view you hold that "it is impossible to do what Jesus says to do" that view is at odds to what the majority of what the older generation of strong preaching says that is on this very sight....

I must say.... weather or not your view is one that you mastered it is not from God.

Do not lower Gods standards.....you say not in this age???? well look to.....

Re 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life

Have you not overcome any sin in your life????
if yes....why not the sin that you now struggle with.


To the original post......forget what everyone says to you just go back to the scriptures and follow them....listen not to those decievers who say "Peace, Peace" when there is no peace.....

God bless u all! And to MeAgain....yes my post was strong, i pray that it doesnt offend you but only brings you closer to God.




And my first reply back to him was not "flaming". But I don't suppose you see all that he was saying at me and "assuming" without having read my post as he stated, he used quite aggressive words in his first three paragraphs and again afterwards. You don't see that part though.
Yet, my first response was giving him the chance to reread it, as in the benefit of the doubt of misunderstanding my words.

I asked that he "would" read the whole of it, as he had said he hadn't and this is what he came back with ....


Quote:
by W_D_J_D on 2006/4/26 4:18:45

MeAgain.....

i went through it very roughly the first time....and the second time wasnt worth it....

i will ask u this......"can we be perfect on this earth"? from your post clearly no!

i dont care what else u think u wrote that was so briliant...i dont need some guy with a phd. in systematic theology etc. to lead me in a "good idead or teaching of sinless perfection"...what ever you got i dont want.

what you wrote in your post was NO different to what i hear from any other spiritualy dying church out there.....

again i say answer me clearly (can we live perfect?)

no i didnt call "total surrender to Him = antichrist...u said, i said that......i say ur teaching on that "u cant be perfect on earth" is from the lawless one = antichrist.

no matter what u said after that is a contradiction....

Forget your teachers and go to the bible...

go back to my post and answer me where do u get your theology or doctrine from???

what do u mean by total surrender?

God bless u! and i pray for your eyes to be opened.




If this was how my very first post ended ....

Quote:
MeAgain wrote:
First (the way) will be our desire for HIM will increase as no desire we've ever felt on earth. LOVE DESIRES !
For HIM and HIM ALONE.
Not ever feeling lonely or bored again, even if in one room for years. Consumed with HIM.

Secondly (the truth) is our desire for TRUTH, because HE IS THE TRUTH. BIBLICAL TRUTH ONLY.
Not even a speck of non-truth will we settle for any longer, because WE WANT HIM --- ALL OF HIM.
LOVE REJOICES AT THE TRUTH ! 1 Corth 13:6

Thirdly (the life) is our walk from then on.
Not one step is for us,(except for normal needs - but even in them, His timing is there.), because our desires have become HIS desires and we don't know any other way anymore. We're 'consumed' with THAT which is ETERNAL. We are seated in Heavenly places finally makes sense or becomes reality to us. LOVE DESIRES TO BE ALWAYS 'HEARING' AND 'BEING WITH' OUR BELOVED.

Staying BIBLE ONLY when seeing what HE was like on earth and what Paul was like, is our only true example. No one else on earth can show us The Way, The Truth and The Life. Their words are NOT 100% INNERANT.

Loving Him and others with HIS LOVE 'is' dying to "self". And "that" is VICTORY.



then, How may I ask him and now you,

"HOW is this Promoting SIN ?" How could 'anyone' get "sinning" out of these examples that I gave ?
That is the most puzzling question of the day, I suppose.


And Then -- what he is saying is that "he is perfect" and that is why I felt that God's Word is worthy to be put in bold, where Paul says he "is not perfect" for the sake of Joe and whomever else is coming under a false condemnation and is why I came back as I did .... NOT for me, but for others .... whether you understand that part or not, but that is usually the only time I come back strong. I am nothing, and don't feel like anything at all .... but I worry about how others are being led to believe about themselves or others.

I was not personally offended as I replied to WDJD the first time, but the second reply to his second comments, merited God's Word for those who are teaching The Sinless Perfection Doctrine, which btw I have seen here and why I brought it up at the first to Joe, because that is a faith killing false doctrine and because that is what WDJD 'is' teaching.


Lastly - You asked for my "personal experience" ... well that is all I gave in my First post on page one.
That was obvious.

As obvious as why you've posted this to me. :-)

 2006/4/26 7:54
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I wanted to weigh in for a moment as I feel it is easy to talk past each other and get all up in arms. When I first arrived on the forum's Philologos and I flew into a heated exchange over this topic. It don't take long.

MeAgain defined sin as missing the Mark and that Mark is the person of Jesus Christ. Charles Finney for example, believed that folk needed to be 'broken down' a few times a week by seeing that they still had sin in their life so they could repent of it. He believed that 'pouring light' on a person required a response, so the idea was to keep searching out more and more 'light' for use in this process.

The problem was, he was sinless perfection/government of God in his soteriology (salvation doctrine). He believed that if a person did not respond right to the [i]light[/i] they have [u]and[/u] any 'new' light they may receive then they instantly [u]lost[/u] their justification and were on the same footing with God as any other unsaved sinner. He viewed our estate before God as Christians more as a 'governor's pardon' than a [i]judicial aquittal[/i]. Even this was 'conditional' to Finney as any new crime, no matter how small, immediately put a person back on 'death row' (so to speak) or as we might say, in danger of Hell fire.

So, for me, the discussion is quite important because many people have many different views of their security before God from Finney's no security to Charles Stanley's eternal security. If I preach an absolute sinless perfection (which I will examine Finney's in a moment) to a people who believe eternal security that is one thing; but if I preach it to folk who have a hair trigger judgment, thin ice salvation, it is quite another.

Now, let me quote from one of Finney's lectures on [u]Death To Sin[/u]:

3. Death [u]in[/u] sin implies a self-indulgent state of mind. To consult ones own ease, happiness, reputation, and interests is natural to him who is dead in sin. If he is on board a steam boat you will find him ready to contend for the best berth (bed), and hastening to obtain the best seat at the first table. If riding in a stagecoach you will observe him seeking for the best seat. To consult his own comfort, his own indulgence and happiness is the law of his mind. And in ten thousand ways will this state of mind develop itself.

But a death to sin implies a self-denying state of mind, a disposition to give others the preference, a choosing to accommodate others, and bless, and benefit others, at the expense of self-interest or self-indulgence.

4. A death [u]in[/u] sin implies the real and practical regarding of ourselves as our own. But death [u]to[/u] sin is the real and practical regarding of our whole being as God's.

5. A death [u]in[/u] sin implies the love of our own reputation. Death to sin implies the making of ourselves no reputation as Christ did.

6. A death [u]in[/u] sin implies the practical regarding of our possessions as our own. Death to sin implies the real and practical regarding of our possessions as God's.

7. Death [u]in[/u] sin implies the dominion of the flesh and a will in subjection to the flesh. A death to sin implies a subjection of the body to the soul. It implies the keeping the body under and bringing it into subjection, and that all its appetites and propensities are brought into subjection to the will of God.

8. A death [u]in[/u] sin implies a state of mind that is influenced by sensible objects, by the honors, riches, opinions, and things of this world as much as if its possessor expected to live here forever. Death to sin implies the giving up the world substantially as a dying man gives it up. [u]Its riches, honors, [i]amusements, pursuits, ambition[/i], strifes, and envyings, what are all these to him?[/u] If he knows himself to be a dying man, he regards them not. He desires them not. He seeks them not. He does not, cannot, under these circumstances, will to have them. [u]He chooses nothing of this world's goods, but those things that are really necessary for the few hours or moments which remain to him of this life. A little more breath--perhaps a few spoons full of water--[/u] a little of the kind attention of his friends are all that is left for him to desire of earthly good. Now death to sin implies this giving up all desire and expectation of the wealth, honors, and selfish pursuits of this world. The man who is dead to sin is as absolutely satisfied with a competency of earthly good as a man is who is on a bed of death. He would no sooner lay his schemes of earthly aggrandizement, or for enlarging and perpetuating his selfish gratification, than a man would upon a bed of death. In a word, he has given up the world as an object of pursuit, as really and emphatically as if he knew himself to be doomed to live but one hour. He has entered upon a new and eternal life. All his plans, desires, and aims are heavenly, and not earthly, sensual or devilish.

*****

Notice how he begins and things sound very good and the more he writes the tighter the message gets upon the hearer. Keep in mind, that to fail in any detail of what he has written would be soul jeapordizing sin. In Finney's perfection there would never be another fishing trip other than for the food it yielded. Food would not be salted unless it is for the preservation of the meat and never for the pleasure of the tastebuds. Man eats to live and therefore would not eat for any real pleasure. In Finney's perfection, the wedding party Jesus attended to turn water into wine I truly believe to him (Finney) would be an excess.

This is Finney's idea of 'light' being shed on our behavior. If new 'light' reveals it to be a working not in harmony with the afore mentioned regulations then it is sin that must be forsaken or Hell awaits.

This is why Ron and my conversation went off the rails. I grew up in a semi-Oberlin theology (Finney's salvation theology). Your salvation was always on the line for the silliest of errors. This may seem excessive or exaggerating, but I have not told the half of it.

There used to be here in Missouri 'holiness or hell' preachers that made almost everything to be a sin. The story is commonly told that an elderly woman bent on living holy heard her minister preach against coffee (yes you heard me right) so she went home and poured a hot cup of water, added cream and sugar, and drank it for fear of displeasing the Lord. I visited an elderly woman in a nursing home that feared hell like that who had to be one of the most holy people I have ever met. YET, she always said, "I sure hope I make it." That woman lost her mind as death came nearer and nearer and last I seen her she was in a hospital bed restrained and caged in like an adult sized baby bed.

BTW, I still believe that Finney loved the Lord and has a great many good things to teach us. Same goes for Wesley. It's told that he plucked up the flowers and planted vegatables lest the flowers cumbereth the ground. As much as I admire these men, I believe there were some fundamental misunderstandings still yet on what it means to please the Lord. Glean from them what is good and discard the rest.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/4/26 8:07Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

Hey Joe,

Sounds as though what you are looking for is a real life experience. So here goes.....

A couple years ago I was saved. At the time, I was a heavy smoker. When I became a Christian, everyone was telling me "You have to quit smoking." Well, this seemed really strange to me. The whole reason I even came to Jesus was because I needed His help. I could not stop myself from sinning. And so, why would I stop smoking on my own, if I couldn't stop from fornicating and other such sins.

So, I decided to talk to Jesus about it. I was completely honest with the Lord. I said, "My Lord, I like smoking. I really do. I have tried to quit many, many times. I can't quit. And so, if you want me to quit, tell me, and I will do whatever you ask. But you will to help me, because I can't do it." And I left it right there at His feet and went on smoking.

About a week later, the Lord spoke to my heart. He said, almost plain as day, "You have to quit smoking." So, I said, "Okay Lord. I will smoke until midnight tonight, and then trust in you." At midnight that night, I put down my last cigarette.

Because I was faithful and trusted in Jesus, He helped me through. I hardly had any cravings. I didn't struggle with it. I just stayed close to Jesus, and let Him help me. I have never smoked again and have complete victory over cigarettes.

When I had this experience, I didn't realize the full and practical implications of what was going on. But, years later, I have learned how to apply this same experience to give me victory over sin in other areas of my life.

The first thing you must realize is that you cannot conquer sin. You cannot do it with your own power. Don't try. You will fail. You may have a small and temporary victory, but then you will fail again. Once you realize this and accept it, then you are ready to turn to Jesus.

You must give your sins to Jesus and let Him conquer sin in you. Now, I realize that this is a really abstract thing. How do you do this?

Firstly, give up. Yes, give up. This means you stop trying to fight against sin. Once you given up, give to Jesus. Draw closer to Christ. How do you do this? Always remember this.....Jesus is with you everywhere you are. Start practicing the presence of God. This means, acknowledge Jesus at all times. Keep your thoughts and mind focused on Him.

Think about this....Jesus is always with you. Everywhere you go, everywhere you are, Jesus is with you. Even when you are sitting on the toilet, Jesus is right there. This will help you. When the Devil comes, and you start to think about sin, remember that Jesus is there. Would you do those things in front of Jesus?

Call out to Jesus. When temptation comes, call to Jesus for help. Don't try to fight on your own. Usually, I will pray and pray and pray calling to Jesus until He answers my prayer. At first, you may have to do this quite a bit. However, as you learn to walk with God, you won't have to repeat yourself. You will be confident and strong and immediately say, "Get away from me Satan. Jesus has already beat you on the cross."

You will experience failures at first. However, don't be discouraged. These failures happen because God is teaching you to have a strong faith. Every time you fail, you must repent and then leave it with Jesus. But, if you go around thinking, "I am such a terrible person, look at me, look at how I sin"....then you have not accepted the forgiveness of God.

Remember, you have been cleansed by Jesus Christ. This means that God does not see any of your sins. They are gone. All your sins. Even the ones you will commit years to come. You must remember this, because if you don't, if you allow sin to have power in your life, it will draw you away from God. Sin was conquered on the cross.

You need God's grace and forgiveness. Don't ever, ever deny it. Always accept His love. Always apologize for what you do wrong. Confess all your sins openly to Christ. Then, leave them there. Don't think about them or remember them.

Lastly, it is important to realize your part and God's part in victory of sin, and also in God's labors. Remember this....your part is always to have faith, and God's part is always to do the work.

What does this mean? This means that Jesus, your God and Lord, is the one who is strong and powerful. He is the one who fulfilled the law, conquered sin, and reigns as King. He is the one who must do the work in you.

You, however, must always be faithful. This means you always trust in God. You always listen to what Jesus tells you. You constantly say, "Yes Lord." If the Lord asks something of you, or tells you something, He will do it. He will give you all the words, the power, and the equipment to do what He asks. You just have to let Him do it in you. Always be willing to obey the Lord with an eager heart.

Don't do anything apart from Christ. If you do, you will be greatly disheartened and anxious. You will not be able to sleep at night, and you will constantly fight with yourself. However, when you draw close to Jesus, you will always have peace, and be filled with joy. This does not mean you won't have struggles or hardship, but even through hardship you will praise the Lord.

Give everything to Jesus and let Him be the Lord of your life.

May Christ bless you indeed,
and may you draw close to Him.

Your brother in Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/4/26 8:48Profile
wyattearp
Member



Joined: 2006/1/28
Posts: 48


 Re:

Joe,
This is the first post I have ever done in my life but your question "How do I get victory" is prompting my post. I hope this helps. To get victory over sin requires faith, "This is the victory which overcomes the world, even our faith". Conversely unbelief keeps us from victory. I had allways thought God would do this for others but not me because I did not really believe that He loved me as He said He did. This was the source of my unbelief. I secretly held this doubt about Him all my life. Unbelief comes not from a lack of credible evidence but from a willingness to believe a lie. If He was not truthfull about His love for me than the fault was in Him and not in me. I had done all I could to try to persuade Him i.e. prayed for victory, but He would not do His part. The problem was He was not telling me my part was to pray, but my part was to believe. And not just believe something in general but to believe something specific. That He loved me and gave HIMSELF for ME. Joe I believe that when the Bible says the heart it means the will. So when God brought to my heart through a book I was reading that I was to believe His love for me really did mean me I willed right then and there that I was going to take Him at His word and would listen to nothing that sought to contradict His word. I didn't get half way out of the room before this thought came to me "That doesn't really mean..." and there I cut it off. Loved me means ME! My reply to your question "How do I get victory" then would be this. There is in you a willingness to believe something that is not true and/or an unwillingness to believe something God has said. I do not know what that might be but you do. Settle that once and for all.
"He that hath received His testimony hath set his seal that God is true". John 3:33

 2006/4/26 9:12Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Brother Joe,

The Lord is dealing with me right now about this very thing. The old-timers would call this "praying through" or "entire sanctification." There's a whole host of terms for this phenomenon.

There are some mainline Protestant churches that believe this doctrine. I absolutely rejected it when I was younger and the Lord has brought me back to it, nearly 40 years later.

Has the Lord achieved some level of victory over sin in my life? Yes, it's been His work and the blood of Jesus has definitely broken things from my heart. Anger, bitterness, smoking, cursing, television, smoking, the list could go but it was a work of Jesus. These were broken by the blood of Jesus but yet the work is not finished in my heart.

There are some testimonies available online at [url=http://wesley.nnu.edu/]Wesley Center online[/url] available in the "Holiness Classics" section. They are testimonies entitled "How They Entered Canaan." There's also a short book that Adam Clarke wrote I believe it's called "Entire Sanctification" and it's also available on this same website.

Here's a brief excerpt, from the preface of this book. Adam Clarke was a holiness preacher and scholar. He was enthusiastically committed to Methodist doctrine and experience and particularly to Wesley's understanding of Christian perfection. In a sermon preached from Phil. 1:27-28 titled "Apostolic Preacher," he explained Christian holiness: "The whole design of God was to restore man to his image, and raise him from the ruins of his fall; in a word, to make him perfect; to blot out all his sins, purify his soul, and fill him with all holiness, so that no unholy temper, evil desire, or impure affection or passion shall either lodge or have any being within him. This and this only is true religion, or Christian perfection; and a less salvation than this would be dishonourable to the sacrifice of Christ and the operation of the Holy Ghost.... Call it by what name we please, it must imply the pardon of all transgression and the removal of the whole body of sin and death.... This, then, is what I plead for, pray for, and heartily recommend to all true believers, under the name of Christian perfection."

Duncan Campbell's testimony is also here and I love this quote "Make me as holy as a
saved sinner can be." That's the cry of my heart. It's not to achieve something but to have this total union with Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with brother in the precious name of Jesus. He is going to bring you through to victory.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2006/4/26 10:02Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy