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Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

I am posting this question to all who can answer it from experience. How do I get victory?

Please DO NOT RESPOND if you have not found victory in your daily walk. I am not looking for a theory about victory, im not looking for a sermon about victory, im not looking for an opinion about victory. I would like an answer from someone who has found their victory in Him, and can give me a clear explanation of how they came to it.

Just to make things clear, this is my definition of victory:

-Having a consistent walk in Him without high high's and low lows, but consistently walking with Him daily
-Not falling to the same sins you have struggled with for a long time, but finding power to overcome temptations when they come
-having the fruits of LOVE, JOY, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and temperence in their daily life.
-walking in humility
-walking with joy (not a miserable, beating yourself out of sin type of 'victory'... or fear of not being saved 'victory'... or fear going to hell 'victory' even I have had that and it doesnt last for more than a few montths and it isnt what Jesus has called us to!)
-walking in Him, with Him, for Him, daily doing His will in a current, real relationship.

I would like to re-emphasize the point, DO NOT RESPOND unless you have found this out and have lived it out in your practical, daily life for a long time (not just a couple of weeks or months). I am not looking for a theory.

Thank you,

Joe E

 2006/4/25 18:54Profile

 Re: The Two Commandments fulfill ALL.

Joe, you better fasten your seat belt, because I think you are too brave to post this because of the multitude of "how to's" you're probably going to get.

If you mean "sinless perfection" in this lifetime, I couldn't say a word about that, because it's not attainable in this present state we are in.

If you mean, never having a low days, that too is not possible in this present state.
We will always have "us" in one form or another and God never intended to "destroy 'us'" ... but uses our low days to just draw us closer and that is why Romans 8:28 is FOR vs 29.
Don't seperate the "Fruit" of the Spirit as it's "singular" "Fruit" but actually see it as what it really is "HIS IMAGE". That is God's complete plan, is to conform us into HIS IMAGE.

Walking in Him or in the Spirit, is [u]not having our eyes on OURSELVES[/u] ... but only HIM and OTHERS ..... that is how HE WALKED WHEN HERE. HE said, "My sheep are continuously "hearing" My Voice and continuously "following". He will lead you in every step of your day if you "keep your ears and eyes fixed upon Him and not dependent on yourself. That's FAITH. And if we are not totally walking "In Faith"... then we can't please Him ... and that Faith is In Him.
Not with HIS eyes on Himself at all. Only on The Father and Others, for His Will and for the good of others. Being willing to be poured out like a drink offering for Him for others.

All I can add now is what I just wrote the other day.

For 30 years I read every book ever written on how to find the "Crucified Life" - "How to Die to Self" - "That He may Increase and I Decrease" .... it was my obsession and my driving passion.

I never watched TV or went out anywhere's, except for fellowship and visits to family.

I wanted to spend every minute of my waking hours for all of these years trying to find HIM.
Or better stated to KNOW HIM as in Phil. 3.

I'd read up to five Classics a week. I'd cry and pray and cry and pray until I think even Heaven was sick of it after a while - ha.

But finally, more like, FINALLY - it came.

I had been asking God for all those years to show me, "But HOW do I die to self, etc. etc. ?"

Then he sent a very wise old man into my life who only taught that GOD IS AGAPE/DIVINE/LOVE.
Love the Lord your God with all of you and others. The Only Two Commandments Jesus gave, because thus we are fulfilling all of the Law and prophets... by Agape Love.

Every single thing HE has done has been because HE IS LOVE.

The ONLY way we can die to self is to seek, find, and allow 'HIS' LOVE to fully have it's way .... no matter the consequences.

When LOVE INCARNATE came to earth .... THEY KILLED HIM.

WE cannot muster up or "try to" love as HIS LOVE.

Only HE can do that in us, if we're willing to die to reputation, what others think of us, our own desires, etc..

How will we know HE is instilling HIS love into us ?

First (the way) will be [u]our desire for HIM will increase as no desire we've ever felt on earth.[/u] LOVE DESIRES !
Not ever feeling lonely or bored again, even if in one room for years. Consumed with HIM.

Secondly (the truth) is our desire for TRUTH, because HE IS THE TRUTH. BIBLICAL TRUTH ONLY.
Not even a speck of non-truth will we settle for any longer, because WE WANT HIM --- ALL OF HIM.

Thirdly (the life) is our walk from then on.
Not one step is for us,(except for normal needs - but even in them, His timing is there.), because our desires have become HIS desires and we don't know any other way anymore. We're 'consumed' with THAT which is ETERNAL. We are seated in Heavenly places finally makes sense or becomes reality to us. LOVE DESIRES TO BE ALWAYS 'HEARING' AND 'BEING WITH' OUR BELOVED.

Staying BIBLE ONLY when seeing what HE was like on earth and what Paul was like, is our only true example. No one else on earth can show us The Way, The Truth and The Life. Their words are NOT 100% INNERANT.

Loving Him and others with HIS LOVE 'is' dying to "self". And "that" is VICTORY.

All the best as you search HIS WORD.



 2006/4/25 19:34

Joined: 2004/2/17
Posts: 99
Sterling, VA

 Re: DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!


I have been truly saved, born again for the past 17 years. I hear your heart yearning in your question. My boast is in our Lord Jesus Christ, not in anything I've attained. Pertaining to all the things on your list, I can testify of the Lord's grace has been sufficient to sustain me in Him, for His glory. I cannot give you a computer print out step A, step B, step C so on HOW it happened; I just know it did. Perhaps that is not satisfying to you, but I can at least mark out a few things that I know for sure have been key contributors to this life. I believe the Lord grants us the "Promised Land" little by little, but it is one of ever increasing glory.

First, victory is not an "it" nor is it a "thing" that God gives you as a gift separate from the giver. Victory is a Person--Jesus. (I'm not going to develop the theology on that one here).

I want to be practical, but I cannot separate it from God's revelation from His Word; they go hand-in-hand. But in brief, these things have become real to me and God has breathed life into what He has shown me.

1. Being filled with the Spirit is not a one-time thing. About 3 years ago John 7:37-39 became very real about my need to be ever thirsty for Living Waters and asking my Father for Him (the Holy Spirit). My "eyesight" into His Word greatly increased and an increasing awareness of His presence.

2. A daily reflection on what Jesus has done for me. Every day has a place where I remember what Christ did for me on the cross. I never get tired going over passages about His loving and giving Himself for me. It humbles any pride I have that I'm somebody. I not only see how free I am from sin because of Jesus' finished work; His grace truly has flowed to take full possession. It's all of Him.

3. Really understanding the DIFFERENCE between the new covenant and the old covenant. Spiritual perfection only comes through not only knowing this, and applying this, but seeing Jesus Christ as my mediator and surety. A lot of my continual spiritual defeat (pride especially) was because I was mixing up old and new covenant life (out of ignorance). Brother Zac Poonen was instrumental in teaching me plainly, and I have sought the Lord in earnest to lay hold of Jesus--and He has not disappointed me at all.

--These next ones are fairly recent developments, but nonetheless real and I speak from experience not theory---

4. Seeking to see Jesus Himself in Scripture, not focusing on anything else. When the Lord showed me what it meant for Him to be my Bright and Morning Star (Rev. 22:16) in connection with 2 Pet 1 and Mount of Transfiguration, it radically altered my study of the Bible. It didn't realize my focus was hazy, not clearly seeking the Lord Himself but other things (like victory, or blessing, or power for service, etc.). When I depend as a little child upon the Holy Spirit to show me Jesus in Scripture, the same Holy Spirit has been transforming me from glory to glory (2 Cor. 3:18). Meditation on the Lord Jesus all the day long has become very easy.

5. Jesus is my SUBSTITUTE for LIFE not just for sins. I've never really understood what Paul meant in Gal. 2:20 (It is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me). I've read it, sung it, taught it probably a hundred times, but the awesome reality of it was hidden from my daily experience. I am walking in the newness of life (Rom. 6:4) not because I can do it, but because Jesus (having been raised from the dead) now does it perfectly. And when I am in Him, He is my substitute for life, and I too can walk in the newness of life. The same goes for serving in the newness of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6). May the Lord open your eyes to see it and apprehend Him as your perfect substitute for living.

"Consider what I say; and the Lord give you understanding in all things." Only God can reveal Himself. I can testify, but He must reveal Himself. He will; keep seeking Him with your whole heart; you will find HIM, and in Him is your victory.


Ken Marino

 2006/4/25 22:10Profile


Ken, I hope you don't mind me making comment on what you've written. I got a smile inside throughout the whole thing.

There aren't multiple truths, so to speak, but CHRIST and Who He is and what He's done and is doing by His Spirit and Word.

You kept the focus on HIM and HIS WORD.

Thank you.


 2006/4/25 22:42

Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario



I think you have received your answer in these two posts and I believe I have as well. I have been wanting victory over sin in my life also. And I have come to realize victory is not something that just happens but it must come from the battle. We cannot be victorious without a battle. I have learned that I cannot develop self control in my flesh. I must depend on the Holy Spirit and trust that he is able to keep me without sin.

I just never hated sin enough or I would rationalize it to myself. I am at a point in my walk where I am tired of banging my head against a wall, "repenting" of the same sins all the time. I don't want to be a hypocrite any longer. I want to produce fruit in keeping with repentance. The reason I am saying this is because the word says confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so you may be healed.

I am through with pretending I have it all together when I don't. Isn't that what hypocrite translates to is "pretender"? For me the most convicting verse in the bible is Hebrews 10:26, If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have gained knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.

I will keep you in my prayers.


Murray Beninger

 2006/4/25 22:48Profile

Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 226
Chapala, Jalisco, Mexico


Dear JF,
Good testimonies indeed. I found out that my victory is in the shed blood, and it's wonder working power. I first of all accepted the biblical fact that all my righteousness is in Him, and He has imputed it to me, when I placed my faith in Him.
Even with that, there was always me, the old flesh to deal with. Then I began to hear the message about how only God could take from me what was not of Him. Everybody has a secret weakness, some not so secret. Others live in pretense well, and we don't realize they have one. What I have may not be what you have, but we all have something, some sin that we are ashamed of, yet know we are powerless over it. I was blessed by being encouraged to take "it" to God and ask Him to take if from me. Well, the weakness is still there, but it does not rule my life or have dominion over me any longer. God has given me a new desire, a desire to be His bond servant. He has accepted my faith in Him and changed my heart. What do I do when I find myself weak? I find He is strong. When I have nothing else to lean on, I know that I have favor with God that is unmerited. I didn't do anything to deserve it, He just chooses to give it to me.
Jesus is my all in all. He is the air I breathe. I desire to give Him thanks and praise in all I say and do. Even when I go to the bathroom, I thank Him that my bodily functions work normally, and that my body is disease free. Glory to God. See, my life has been swallowed up in His life, immersed and hidden in Him. It is no longer I who live, but He Who lives in me.
Joe, you will never be strong enough, never learn enough, never hope enough, in your own abilities. Christianity is distinct from all other religious practices. It relies on God's power and sacrifice instead of man's works, efforts, and abilities. When I am weak, His strentgh is made perfect. He has done what I fell way short of in my own efforts. My feet are on the Rock of my salvation, Jesus Christ. I stand complete in Him, saved to the uttermost, a joint heir with Him. All that He has, I have. How? By faith in His victory at calvary. I dont' have to do, I am, because He says so, and I have a witness in my heart to tell me it is true. The witness? Why His Holy Spirit alive in me, ever taking me closer God. My wife and I were at a conference a couple weeks ago. This lady that we had just met during the conference told us that all she saw in us was Christ the whole time we were there. Tears came into my eyes. Oh I'm so glad He shows through me. It has not always been so. But it's a work that He has done in me. Thanks be to God. And you know what, He will do it for you too, if only you ask Him too. I know that you will, and I will stand with you in asking our God to bless you with even more than He has me. How's that?
So just set down in a quite place, and rest all your burdens, all your cares upon Him. Worship Him and give Him thanks and praise, regardless of circumstances or events. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. It's that simple. It's so simple that many miss it. It's God!

Worshipping and giving thanks,


Lahry Sibley

 2006/4/26 0:40Profile

Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119

 Re: MeAgain

ok, in resonse to MeAgain's response....

do not mock God and His word. (all things are possible with God) (ask and you shall recieve) (fight untill bloodshed against sin) (you shall be perfect)

Just because you have not experinced true victory do not shoot someone down for seeking it.

You are teaching contrary to the word of God MeAgain, im sorry but it is simply the spirit of the anti-christ that is behind you....i did not read your whole post because it from the start is against scripture...... you said

If you mean "sinless perfection" in this lifetime, I couldn't say a word about that, because it's not attainable in this present state we are in.

That is not teaching other people to observe everything that Jesus taught you. The lawless one is coming very soon (2 Thes. 2) and he has many followers in the church today paving the way for him.

Jesus taught you must be perfect. why do people say "you cant be"????? when Jesus says "be"?

MeAgain what about 2 Corinthians 7:1????

what about titus 2:12???? in this present world???

you are causing a young christian or a strugling christian to RELAX because it is "too hard" for YOU to keep God's commandments....

Luke 17:1-2
Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Listen not to the false prophets/preachers/people who commend your sin weather directly or inderectly......

Col 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Heb 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Leonard Ravnehill said
I'm not saying that it's impossible to sin. I'm saying that it is possile not to sin."

Can i also suggest that MeAgain that that view you hold that "it is impossible to do what Jesus says to do" that view is at odds to what the majority of what the older generation of strong preaching says that is on this very sight....

I must say.... weather or not your view is one that you mastered it is not from God.

Do not lower Gods say not in this age???? well look to.....

Re 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life

Have you not overcome any sin in your life????
if yes....why not the sin that you now struggle with.

To the original post......forget what everyone says to you just go back to the scriptures and follow them....listen not to those decievers who say "Peace, Peace" when there is no peace.....

God bless u all! And to MeAgain....yes my post was strong, i pray that it doesnt offend you but only brings you closer to God.

 2006/4/26 1:25Profile


W_D_J_D - May God Himself forgive you for using the term "antichrist" in regard to what I wrote.

I myself am not offended, but had you read on .... you would have seen just how dreadfully wrong you are.

God forgive you. And I pray you find a Good apologetic type teacher to teach you about "The Doctrine of Sinless Perfection".

May God have mercy on you and may you have mercy on others by having the courtesy to read their entire post ... because you missed Christ in it 100% and called "total surrender to HIM" - "antichrist".

You'll be in my prayers and I forgive you but I would seriously recommend you pray and then read my WHOLE post.

I think you may have something different to say to me after you do.

God help your hastiness to judge and condemn without full investigation of a post or knowledge of the person's prior posts through-out.

 2006/4/26 3:09

Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119



i went through it very roughly the first time....and the second time wasnt worth it....

i will ask u this......"can we be perfect on this earth"? from your post clearly no!

i dont care what else u think u wrote that was so briliant...i dont need some guy with a phd. in systematic theology etc. to lead me in a "good idead or teaching of sinless perfection"...what ever you got i dont want.

what you wrote in your post was NO different to what i hear from any other spiritualy dying church out there.....

again i say answer me clearly (can we live perfect?)

no i didnt call "total surrender to Him = antichrist...u said, i said that......i say ur teaching on that "u cant be perfect on earth" is from the lawless one = antichrist.

no matter what u said after that is a contradiction....

Forget your teachers and go to the bible...

go back to my post and answer me where do u get your theology or doctrine from???

what do u mean by total surrender?

God bless u! and i pray for your eyes to be opened.

 2006/4/26 4:18Profile

 Re: DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

Dear brother...You have the victory, already in Him. You dont try to attain victory, that would be struggling in your flesh. Just rest and walk in the Spirit, put on your spiritual armor. Christ overcame it all for you already. Dont put legalistic blinds on your eyes or live under some LAWS. "The law of the (Spirit) of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law(of the flesh) of sin and death"Rom.8:2 Focusing on "Not falling" may make it even harder. We walk by grace, talk by grace, eat by grace. The yoke of SLAVERY(perfection) is taken out of the way. Walk in peace, walk in Victory, and know that that is what is pleasing to God, not some man-made theory or requirements.

 2006/4/26 4:36

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