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BoyNjourney
Member



Joined: 2005/2/4
Posts: 2


 Christian Counselor's That Drive The Devils Car

...upon arriving home last night, I was blessed to have a call with a dear christian brother whom I have not seen in a couple of years. He vented to me about the "hell" he was living in right now with difficult times. And personally I do agree he has it tough. Then he goes on to mention to me he visited a Christian Counselor just awhile back, and the counselor gave him this advice, "you just need to not have a Quiet Time right now, and let the Lord love you, and you should not force any works to achieve a Quiet Time everyday, because you are burned out."

~my Spirit screamed out like a FLAMING DOVE, "WHAT IS THIS HERESY"?!! My friend actually believed the counselor and took his advice. So I gathered composure and sought to administer the truth to him in this matter. I insisted that Hebrews 11:6 was vital for him, and that God does reward those that draw close to him, and then the Spirit took me in mind to Song of Solomon, and the lover running over to hide behind the Trellis waiting for the bride to come running back after him, searching for Him. Draw close to the Lord and He WILL DRAW CLOSE TO YOU. Hopefully the Spirit will use this in his life, though I fear my message was unreceived.

So here is my SHOUT OUT, and its about Christian Counselors. This isnt the first frustration I have had with "these counselors". There are two types of Christian Counseling, 1. Christian Counseling that uses Mans Pychology, Man's Wisdom, Man's Drugs, Man's Logic, Man's Intuition. This type of Christian Counseling will only lead you into a inward and downward spiral into the blood thirsty soul and flesh of your body. I say to these types of Counselors "Lean not on your own understanding, and QUIT DRIVING WOUNDED SHEEP IN THE DEVIL'S CAR.

The Other type of Christian Counseling, is Christ centered, the Life of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ will set you free from anything you are dealing with. Jesus Christ will heal this pain, and that pain, this void and that void, this struggle and that struggle, and the Word of God, sewn into us by the Power of the Spirit will set anyone free. That is, anyone that seeks after the Lord and not Man's Wisdom. I say go to God, go to the Word, and don't sit down in the harvest field and wait for something to happen. There is a battle going on, and if you slack off sitting in the field, that warfare battle may just indeed come to you in your lethargic state. We MUST GO TO JESUS FOR EVERYTHING!

To be at peace with this fire in my bones in this matter, I must say if you are driving in the car with a Christian Counselor advising you in the ways of Man, GET OUT OF THE CAR< JUMP FOR THE ROAD, then roll, and tumble all the way until you find the real comforter and the real Counselor Jesus Christ in the WORD OF GOD.

Blessings to you all today. My thoughts and prayers are for each of you as you stay lit daily for the Glory of the Lord. Soon we will see our Lover come for Us!! Until then, keep working dedicated in the harvest field of the Lord.
-boynjourney

 2006/4/19 18:39Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re: Christian Counselor's That Drive The Devils Car

Amen brother! We must go to Jesus and not to the world for deliverance. It's the blood of Jesus that delivers, not some self-help techniques and certainly not by trying harder. You've just described psychoheresy quite well. As one who spent a considerable number of years seeking help from the world, rather than Jesus you're right on track.

PSYCHOHERESY? What's that? I've never seen that term in the Bible.

Basically, psychoheresy is a term to describe what you have when secular psychological counseling ideas and concepts are mixed with the teachings of the Bible.

[url=http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/bigissue.html]Psychoheresy website[/url]


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Ed Pugh

 2006/4/20 7:41Profile
DomSpencer
Member



Joined: 2006/4/5
Posts: 24
Hull, East Yorkshire, England

 Re: Christian Counselor's That Drive The Devils Car

From the Cambridge Dictionary:

heresy
noun
1 [C or U] (the act of having) an opinion or belief that is the opposite of or against what is the official or popular opinion, or an action which shows that you have no respect for the official opinion...

2 [U] a belief which is against the principles of a particular religion:
He was burned at the stake in the fifteenth century for heresy.

Hi there - I read with interest your post, and could identify in part with your sentiments. However, I think that sometimes it takes a bit of "dangerous" thinking to shake ourselves free from the poison of legalism.

I agree with you, of course, that we all need to pray and read our Bible. I agree that if we draw near to God He will draw near to us. However, how often, when, where and how, are questions which I don't really think anyone can answer for anyone else.

Quote:
the counselor gave him this advice, "you just need to not have a Quiet Time right now, and let the Lord love you, and you should not force any works to achieve a Quiet Time everyday, because you are burned out."



I think it's a bit strong to call this "heresy", however you are entitled to your opinion!

The devil is very clever, and a past master at tying Christians up in the web of legalism. I've been there in a big way, and I know that it's a very short walk from sincere loving service of the Lord, to actually serving your idea of who God is, and what He expects, resulting in confusion, fear and condemnation. I have since learned ALOT about Jesus and the Father, and am expecting to go deeper and deeper throughout eternity, discovering the infinite depths of love He has for me.

I obviously have no knowledge of your friend or this person he was talking to, but I would certainly not write off this person's advice not to force any works to achieve a quiet time every day.

By that I do not mean to say he does not need to seek God. Perhaps he needs to relax a bit and see God as a Father who is absolutely head-over-heels in love with him, rather than a legalistic slave driver who will only be pleased with him if he clocks in at a certain time every day.

Whatever your friend does - he is accepted by God in Jesus Christ. THAT should be his starting point, and if he realises that (with some encouragement from his friends!) he will be on a secure foundation to move into a highly rewarding relationship with God.

Bless you for your care for him!

Yours in Christ

Dom Spencer


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Dominic Spencer

 2006/4/20 9:07Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Dom,

Quote:
By that I do not mean to say he does not need to seek God. Perhaps he needs to relax a bit and see God as a Father who is [u]absolutely head-over-heels in love with him[/u], rather than a legalistic slave driver who will only be pleased with him if he clocks in at a certain time every day.



I'm trying to come to terms with this segment. I am all together uncomfortable with the underlined idiom generally reserved for 'lovers'. I think it leads to a gross misunderstanding of our relationship with God and God's expectation of us.

Truly we are slaves and He is our Master. We present ourselves unto the Lord based upon what should be seen as a 'reasonable' (logical) response to His expression of love, which He demonstrated on the Cross (Romans 12:1). [i]Greater love hath no man than this, that He would lay down His life for His friends. [/i]

I find no NT biblical precedent for thinking of God's love towards us in a 'head over heels' fashion. We love Him because He first loved us and expressed that love in his sacrificial death. That is where our eyes need to focus. If we are too look to a hill to see God's love it will be Mount Calvary, not running and chasing us, but carrying the weight of my sins and the cross upon His back. I am not trying to be mean here at all; I am trying to keep the focus where it has to be if we are to appreciate God's love for us. We simply cannot reduce our relationship with God to two lovers madly in love.






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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/4/20 9:59Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Well said Robert, especially in light of so much of this particular 'idiom' being mentioned often of late.

Quote:
"you just need to not have a Quiet Time right now, and let the Lord love you, and you should not force any works to achieve a Quiet Time everyday, because you are burned out."



Not entirely off base, taking Robert's sentiments into view ... To wait on the Lord is both a great difficulty and a needed necessity. There is a place of spiritual burnout where we are forcing the issue and operating out of the flesh even more than we might like to admit.

Am speaking from experience.


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Mike Balog

 2006/4/20 10:26Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:helping your friend find peace

Quote:
"you just need to not have a Quiet Time right now, and let the Lord love you, and you should not force any works to achieve a Quiet Time everyday, because you are burned out."


Boynjourney, I really appreciate your passion to see this person fully trust in Christ. And I also empathize with your concern about heresy.

Yet these words may be the exact words your friend needs to hear. I had a friend who was in a similar situation many years ago. As anxiety and guilt grew deeper, she became more and more obsessed with reading the bible and praying. It became harmful to her. She needed to be set free from anxiety, burn out, guilt, and from bondage to works. She was told these words too by her counselor. She took the advice, and it helped her a lot.

That was many years ago. Now she is much more stable and loves the Word and God, and is a great pray-er.

It seems wrong to close the bible for a time - but it may be the best way to learn to trust in God rather than in one's spiritual activities.

Perhaps the best thing you could do is pray for your friend and the counselor. The counselor likely sees things that you don't, and if possible, it's best not to interfere in the process too much.

If this person is suffering from the deeper stages of burn-out, this is not time to lay heavy spiritual truths on him. He can't handle it.
Just enjoy your friend, go on walks, enjoy nature, or something wholesome. Your inner peace and joy and trust will rub off on him. And just keep on lifting him before God! Trust God!

Diane


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Diane

 2006/4/20 10:33Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
There is a place of spiritual burnout where we are forcing the issue and operating out of the flesh even more than we might like to admit.

Am speaking from experience.



Yes. And amen. Have been there also, even recently. I think our relationship with God needs to have a little more of a natural flow than that. We can get bogged down doing things and our heart not be in it. We don't need a break from God, but we need a break from ourselves and our false notions.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/4/20 11:05Profile
DomSpencer
Member



Joined: 2006/4/5
Posts: 24
Hull, East Yorkshire, England

 Re:

Hi Robert

From the Cambridge Dictionary:

head over heels (in love):
completely in love


I don't think that phrase only applies to "lovers" of the romantic kind.

I would certainly say it of my relationship with my 2 children.

I think there are some surprises in store for us regarding the way God actually feels toward us.

Bless you

Dom


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Dominic Spencer

 2006/4/20 11:15Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Jesus is our Bridegroom, we are His bride, so He certainly is in Love with us.
When we are unable to go to where He is, for any reason, He comes to us.
It is all of Jesus, none of us.
I'm speaking from experience on this.

He came to me
He came to me.
When I could not go to where He was
He came to me.
That's why He died
On Calvary
When I could not go to where He was, He came to me.

God Bless all of you.
Nellie :-) :-)

 2006/4/20 12:46Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Hi guys,

You all should go to www.thebereancall.org.

This ministry has many resources about Christian psychology. If you go to some of the newsletters, Dave Hunt goes into depth on what their main focus on teaching etc. is.

I pray this ministry blesses you all, They have opened my eyes to a couple of pretty unnoticed heresies the past couple of years.

god bless


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/4/20 13:02Profile





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