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Discussion Forum : General Topics : A word for the sermonindex folk

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Combat_Chuck
Member



Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 A word for the sermonindex folk

Too many of ya'll want to be like Wesley, and Finney, and Ravenhill, etc...

As Ravenhill said, their Bible was not any thicker than ours is!

Everything naturally in these men was wickedness-- anything good in them is Christ.

You don't want to be like Wesley, you don't want to be like Finney, you don't want to be like Ravenhill! You want to be like CHRIST.

God bless you.


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Combat Chuck

 2006/4/18 2:42Profile









 Re: A word for the sermonindex folk

Wow...this makes sense! People look..here is a believer who knows what he's talking about! The same God who was in the greats, is in you! There is no one else like you, you are unique. Go out into the big wonderful world and RAISE HELL(TO POPULATE HEAVEN-WE DONT HAVE MUCH MORE TIME).
WAAAAAAAKE UUUUUUP CCCCCHURCHHHHHHH!

 2006/4/18 5:35
Josiah777
Member



Joined: 2004/2/17
Posts: 99
Sterling, VA

 Re: A word for the sermonindex folk

The ultimate truth, of course, is that we would be like Christ. I have admired men such as Wesley, Finney, Ravenhill, etc. insomuch as I have seen Jesus. I do want to be provoked to "love and good works" by their godly example as God indwelled them and shined from them. My expectations of what God can do have been stretched, and I have a larger cup for God's grace to flow into my life because of seeing what God's grace did in their lives.

Have you ever noticed Jesus' last "I AM" statement in the Bible? He said, "I am the Bright and Morning Star" (Rev. 22:16). The morning star in nature is that one star that rises in the east at dawn, and as the day dawns, the morning star gets brighter and brighter, and every other star gets dimmer and dimmer. By the time the sun appears, the morning star is the only visible star in the sky. That's Jesus. Peter in his second epistle related Jesus as a morning star back to the Mount of Transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah were those disappearing stars. The Holy Spirit has come to reveal Christ to us from these men. So we don't study Moses to see Moses or Elijah to see Elijah. There is certainly value to do so, but there is a more excellent way if we can see past them to our Lord Himself. If we depend upon the Holy Spirit to show me Jesus through these men as looking-glasses, I will see Him.

One day, all the Church of Jesus Christ will be a looking-glass for the Lamb. Revelations says she will be as clear as a jasper stone (like a crystal) in which Christ's light will be unhindered. So Christ is seen in the Bible; He is also seen in His Church, and will be gloriously displayed through His people for all eternity. He is preeminent One to whom all creation bows.

What has blessed me is to use the Welseys, the Whitefields, the Ravenhills as a looking-glass to see Jesus. I don't throw the looking-glass away, I just make sure am I focusing upon the right Object--Jesus, the Bright and Morning Star. It sounds like that is what you are saying, but I wanted to add this to balance it out.


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Ken Marino

 2006/4/18 9:15Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: finetuning an observation

Quote:
Too many of ya'll want to be like Wesley, and Finney, and Ravenhill, etc...


Could you explain precisely how you feel this is happening?

Is this a bad thing or a good thing?
Why?
In what way?
If bad, what should be done about it?
Diane


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Diane

 2006/4/18 12:55Profile
Combat_Chuck
Member



Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Quote:
Too many of ya'll want to be like Wesley, and Finney, and Ravenhill, etc...


Could you explain precisely how you feel this is happening?


I've been meditating on your questions the last day...

I think one of the main reasons people want to be like these "spiritual giants" is because these were VERY controversial people.

They were extremely outspoken, riots arose from them, they were often the center of attention. This is not to downplay the role of Wesley and all the greats, they certainly were godly men who were used mightily by God!

But oh what a temptation it is, to want to be dogmatic... extreme, the center of attention-- to want to stand up in the streets and get an angry mob!

Besides, who wants to go serve the sinners and whores when you can have all this attention? Who wants to do the things that nobody except God will see? We must lose the fear of being forgotten by men.

Everyone notices an outspoken man in the streets declaring everyones sins to them and the need for repentance-- shouting on loudspeakers and holding controversial signs. But who will notice somebody who touches modern day lepers and washes the feet of fishermen?


Quote:

Is this a bad thing or a good thing?
Why?
In what way?
If bad, what should be done about it?
Diane


We have Christ as our example to follow. Must we focus on anyone else?

Certainly "God works with different people in different ways". Some of us are prophets, some pastors, some teachers, etc...

And certainly some must be able to say, "follow me as I follow Christ" like Paul did. But most of us are not able to say this. And I doubt Ravenhill would ever say such a thing. Yet some of us here are following Ravenhill as if ol' Len was Christ!

We must be careful, not to spend more time listening to Leonard Ravenhill and reading John Wesley than we spend reading God's holy Word and praying, fellowshipping with our Lord!

Are we in danger of losing Christ amidst the Christ centered words of men like Ravenhill? May this never be! But I suspect it is happening. Oh it is so much more convenient to sit around and listen to Len preach and say, "Amen!"-- than it is to go into the closet and read the Word and pray for 6 hours.

All of this focus on John Wesley, Ravenhill and these giants is unhealthy. Many of us are turning into Ravenhill parots. We should focus on Jesus, being conformed to Him!

Now, I must balance my words to avoid conflicts. I am not against Ravenhill, Wesley, Finney, Spurgeon, Tozer, Booth, etc... I greatly admire them, and am not condemning their actions at all! As I already said these godly men were greatly used by God in their time! Their writings and audio teachings are extremely valuable to us and we should prayerfully consider their words, but may we never forget where they got this power and wisdom-- JESUS CHRIST.

I challenge anyone here to spend as much time that you spend listening to the audio sermons here and reading articles... to spend an equal if not greater time in solitude learning from our Lord Jesus in prayer, meditation, and study of the living Word of God.

I may have tipped over some sacred cows here. However, it is because of love for the brothers and sisters here, and I am tipping them as gently and respectful as possible.

Blessings,
Adam


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Combat Chuck

 2006/4/19 17:40Profile
disciplejosh
Member



Joined: 2003/6/13
Posts: 210
Southern California

 Re:

Thanks Chuck. I am going to spend some time thinking about this.


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Josh

 2006/4/19 18:28Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3136
Texas

 Re: A word for the sermonindex folk

Quote:

Combat_Chuck wrote:
Too many of ya'll want to be like Wesley, and Finney, and Ravenhill, etc...



Amen! Amen! and another Amen! Brother,I wished I could get away with a statement like that without being personally slammed for my opinions, I just learned to keep most of my opinions to myself now. :-)


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Mr. Bill

 2006/4/19 18:55Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi eveyrone.

If I could just slip this verse in here, I think it speaks to what brother Adam is talking about.

This is from Jeremiah 45 and in the context it is pretty amazing considering Baruch's confession in verse 3

Quote:
And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not...



An article by J.C. Philpot deals with this text

Life given for a prey

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=2745


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/4/19 20:54Profile
relewis111
Member



Joined: 2004/12/3
Posts: 51
Pittsburgh,PA

 Re: planks or specks

Ahh, is that a speck in your eye? I do spend more time in the word and in prayer then on this site and I don't need you to tell me how to be Christ-like, kind of a catch twenty-two isn't it?
I find my time to be more productively spent for the Kingdom of God in building people up rather then castigating them for educating themselves. That's just me, though. Doesn't it say something about vain and useless wranglings and that Almighty God alone is fit to judge the hearts of others? What is spoken in darkness will not be hidden for all things will come to light and any time whatsoever spent in the pursuit of godliness will bear fruit for all to see so why worry over how other people's hearts draw near to Jesus?

My prayers are with each and every one of you, that you hear the Shepherd's voice clearly and if the Holy Spirit shines through the words of men and women of God, without the dullness of passing time, then the truth will not fade either.

His
Rich


_________________
Richard E Lewis III

 2006/4/19 21:18Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3136
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

relewis111 wrote:
My prayers are with each and every one of you

Rich



Thanks Rich.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2006/4/19 21:25Profile





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