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Discussion Forum : General Topics : So you want to be an Apostle???

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Onesimus4God
Member



Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 186
Tickfaw, Louisiana USA

 So you want to be an Apostle???

So You Want to be an Apostle????

By Lahry Sibley

When is the last time you saw and Apostle? If you saw one, what would he look like? What kind of qualifications do you suppose he would have?

Let’s look at God’s Word and get a glimpse of the real deal. God knows the church of Jesus Christ in the USA could use a boost, maybe a prophet or an apostle.

1 Cor 4:1 SO THEN, let us [apostles] be looked upon as ministering servants of Christ and stewards (trustees) of the mysteries (the secret purposes) of God.

Apostles are servants who do ministry. They are trustees of the secret things of God, but oh so eager to make them known (special messengers) to the Body of Christ. Perhaps they move in the prophetic as well.

2 Moreover, it is [essentially] required of stewards that a man should be found faithful [proving himself worthy of trust].

Trust is such a precious commodity in this hour. There are so precious few who can actually be trusted, apart from Christ. This man, the apostle, is very mature and is biblically and spiritually led by the Holy Spirit. You just feel better when he is around…..don’t you?

4b It is the Lord [Himself] Who examines and judges me.

Few would deny that Paul surely was an apostle. His judge? The Lord Himself.

6 Now I have applied all this [about parties and factions] to myself and Apollos for your sakes, brethren, so that from what I have said of us [as illustrations], you may learn [to think of men in accordance with Scripture and] not to go beyond that which is written, that none of you may be puffed up and inflated with pride and boast in favor of one [minister and teacher] against another.

Oh the pride I see in churches today, and factions, and ministers. Just question the teaching of some of these guys and you will see who has an idolatrous relationship with them. These things should not be as Paul so aptly points out.

7 For who separates you from the others [as a faction leader]? [Who makes you superior and sets you apart from another, giving you the preeminence?] What have you that was not given to you? If then you received it [from someone], why do you boast as if you had not received [but had gained it by your own efforts]?

National fame, literary notoriety, video performance. Do these things make one a faction leader? A Superior? An authority?

8 [You behave as if] you are already filled and think you have enough [you are full and content, feeling no need of anything more]! Already you have become rich [in spiritual gifts and graces]! [Without any counsel or instruction from us, in your conceit], you have ascended your thrones and come into your kingdom without including us! And would that it were true and that you did reign, so that we might be sharing the kingdom with you!

“you have ascended YOUR thrones and come into YOUR kingdom” (emphasis my own) That is why so many of today’s church leaders lack the power of God. They are not ambassadors of Christ as they should be. In stead, they are kings of their kingdoms of their own making, empowered by their own egos and conceit. True apostles will never fall prey to this self inflation and pride.

9 For it seems to me that God has made an exhibit of us apostles, exposing us to view last [of all, like men in a triumphal procession who are] sentenced to death [and displayed at the end of the line]. For we have become a spectacle to the world [a show in the world's amphitheater] with both men and angels [as spectators].

Apostles are of God made to be and exhibit as a man sentenced to death. Surely, apostles have already died with Christ, but they are looked upon, even to many church folks and especially church leaders as common criminals, to be despised and ridiculed. Sigh. How did we get into such a mess as this?

10 We are [looked upon as] fools on account of Christ and for His sake, but you are [supposedly] so amazingly wise and prudent in Christ! We are weak, but you are [so very] strong! You are highly esteemed, but we are in disrepute and contempt!

Not only the world has contempt for true apostles, but so does religious crowd as well. They despised Jesus, and they despise His apostles, pastors, evangelists, teachers, and prophets.

The church leadership is held in high esteem, while the true apostle is viewed as being weak, contemptable and in disrepute.

11 To this hour we have gone both hungry and thirsty; we [habitually] wear but one undergarment [and shiver in the cold]; we are roughly knocked about and wander around homeless.

Ever look at the “street people” in a city park and wonder if there is an apostle among them? Only outcasts go hungry, and are thirsty. What are they cast out from, if not our very own churches, whom they should be loved and welcomed by. Apostles suffer harsh treatment, just as Jesus did, without a true cause for the vindictive behavior of the religious kings and their kingdoms.

12 And we still toil unto weariness [for our living], working hard with our own hands. When men revile us [wound us with an accursed sting], we bless them. When we are persecuted, we take it patiently and endure it.

When is the last time you ever heard of an apostle being included in the church budget?

13 When we are slandered and defamed, we [try to] answer softly and bring comfort. We have been made and are now the rubbish and filth of the world [the offscouring of all things, the scum of the earth].

To mention an apostle or prophet is to equate the title with a snake oil salesman or a crooked attorney, a politician even. Why is that?


14 I do not write this to shame you, but to warn and counsel you as my beloved children.

When was the last time you heard such a warning come from the pulpit in your church? Has it been a while? Why is that?

15After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).

A father to all, but yet rejected by most, especially church “leadership”.

16 So I urge and implore you, be imitators of me.

In another place, Paul says the same thing, to be imitators of him, as He imitates Christ. Christ was a servant to all the rest, so is His apostles. And both Christ and Paul urged all to be servants as they were. Servants have no self interest, but live to please and work for their master, always at His beckon call.

17For this very cause I sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and trustworthy child in the Lord, who will recall to your minds my methods of proceeding and course of conduct and way of life in Christ, such as I teach everywhere in each of the churches.

This is what Paul wanted imitated among the church brethren. If it is not imitated by church leadership, it will not be imitated by the church itself.

18Some of you have become conceited and arrogant and pretentious, counting on my not coming to you.

Many are not counting on the soon coming of our Lord and Savior either. But that will not spare them when He does come. Suddenly!!!!!!!!

19 But I will come to you [and] shortly, if the Lord is willing, and then I will perceive and understand not what the talk of these puffed up and arrogant spirits amount to, but their force (the moral power and excellence of soul they really possess).

All church leadership, true leadership, should posses moral power over the lusts of the flesh by, and only by, the power of the blood of Jesus working in their lives. They also should possess excellence in their souls…living according to Romans 12.

20 For the kingdom of God consists of and is based on not talk but power (moral power and excellence of soul).

Are you living in the kingdom of God, or are you observing the kingdom of God. Romans 14:17 says that the kingdom of God …is righteousness, heart peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Is there where you dwell, or do you just observe others whom you think dwells there?

21 Now which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of correction, or with love and in a spirit of gentleness?

Apostles are well able to apply the rod, but most often walk in love and gentleness of Spirit.

Of course, there is much more that scripture reveals about apostles. But this passage really hits the high points. I hear folks often comment how they would like to be or have been apostles. Really? Could you joyfully embrace what Paul went through, what the other 12 went through, what Jesus went through?

My Lord we need all the leadership operating in the Body if the Body is to be alive and healthy. We need all the parts active as well. Sadly, in some churches, the head of the pastor is so large, there is no room for anything else.

Jesus was crucified outside the camp, outside the temple, outside of the religiosity of His day. That is likely where you will find the true apostle as well. Look closely. You just may spot a prophet nearby as well.


_________________
Lahry Sibley

 2006/4/16 18:09Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: So you want to be an Apostle???

bro O
This is indeed a timely message, it resonates with my spirit i must say. i've heard of some people who contend that after the original 12 and Paul died, there were no more apostles left and they were the only ones. This of course is untrue but seems to me to be a ploy to keep the current religious system alive for the arrival of the apostles spells the end of this system.

the qualifications of such a one is simply to be called of God. When the Lord had me look at the conversion of Paul He showed me some things about it which i'd not noticed before:
1) Paul and the guys he was with saw the light, yet only paul was blinded
2) none of them heard the voice of the Lord save for Paul so none of them could vouch for him.

i've noticed a trend in the Church wherein someone says "i'm a prophet/aspostle of the Lord" and the response is "whatever man...you're trippin" the word which comes is not received and the Church loses out because the bearer of the message doesn't seem prohpetic/apostolic enough in our view. The Lord has shown me to bring the word of such a one to Him and let Him try it, if it is indeed His then i receive it and keep it, if it is not, i disregard it and move on. Paul oft had to defend his apsotleship and he would begin his letters by saying he was called of God to be an apostle and not by men. He made no bones about it and those of us called to this office/work should make no bones about it either, people will receive it or they won't.

man the apostle is an interesting character, he is one that even the prophet can pity! he is one who indeed is scourned and mocked and ridiculed on this side yet the Lord will glorify him on the other side. He is one called of God to be made a spectacle of before everyone for His sake and the sake of the Church. This is not a job which will have scores of people looking to apply, it is not for the faint of heart but requires yielding to God for without that one can't do this work much less endure the rigors of it.

For those of us which the Lord has called to this work, He shall indeed be our all so that His work will be done as He would have it done. praise the Lord for He is faithful!AMEN


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/17 22:53Profile









 Re:

There's been a 'serious' mis-use or re-definition of this office "Apostle" in today's church. Most of these "new apostles" are setting forth "new teachings, etc.". This latest "Apostolic Movement" is highly suspect and normally brings in heretical teachings with it.

Apostle means no more than a messenger as in a MISSIONARY. Not a maker of Doctrine or being a usurper of power over a people, outside of that which is found in Scripture.

In various verses we see that Paul was more than just an Apostle just as most Missionaries are. 1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a 'preacher', and an 'apostle', (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a 'teacher' of the Gentiles in faith and verity. And more than likely used in prophecy 1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute.

Someday and in some places now, all Christians will be slain and persecuted, callings or no calling.

652. ajpovstolo" apostolos; gen. apostolou, masc. noun from apostelloµ [from 649-set apart, that is, (by implication) to send out (properly on a mission], to send. Used as a subst., one sent, apostle, ambassador. Sometimes used syn. with presbeuteµs, ambassador, related to presbeuoµ (4243), to act as an ambassador (2 Cor. 5:20; Eph. 6:20). The messenger or ambassador (Phil. 2:25 [see also Phil. 4:18]) can never be greater than the one who sends him (John 13:16; Sept.: 1 Kgs. 14:6). The Lord chose the term apostoloi to indicate the distinctive relation of the Twelve Apostles whom He chose to be His witnesses because in Class. Gr. the word was seldom used (Luke 6:13; Acts 1:2, 26). Therefore, it designates the office as instituted by Christ to witness of Him before the world (John 17:18). It also designates the authority which those called to this office possess. See the verb apostelloµ in Rom. 10:15. Paul combines both these meanings (Rom. 1:1; 11:13; 1 Cor. 1:1; 9:1, 2; 15:9; 2 Cor. 1:1; 12:12; Gal. 1:1). It was the distinctive name of the Twelve Apostles originally (Matt. 10:2; Luke 6:13; 9:10; 22:14; Rev. 21:14) or the eleven later, with whom Paul himself was reckoned, as he says in 1 Cor. 15:7, 9; Acts 1:26. Paul justified his being counted as an apostle by the fact that he had been called to the office by Christ Himself.
However, the denomination seems from the very beginning to have been applied, in a much wider sense, to all who ministered as colleagues of the Twelve and bore witness of Christ (Acts 14:4, 14 of Paul and Barnabas; Acts 15:2; Rom. 16:7 of Andronicus and Junias; 2 Cor. 8:23) and even by Paul (2 Cor. 11:13; 1 Thess. 2:6). This general meaning of the word held its place alongside its special and distinctive application.
There is no continuity of the office of an apostle since in no place were the churches instructed to ordain apostles.
The term is applied to Christ once in Heb. 3:1 who was sent by the Father into the world, not to condemn it but to save it (John 3:17; 17:3, 8, 21, 23; 20:21).
In Corinth there were what Paul calls hoi huperléan apostoloi (2 Cor. 11:5; 12:11), translated “the very chiefest apostles.” The adj. huperléan derives from the prep. huper (5228), more, beyond, super, above, and the adv. léan (3029), exceedingly. These were those who claimed to be exceedingly above the other apostles whose words, they insisted, should be heard above the authentic apostolic teaching.
Other references: Mark 6:30; Luke 11:49; 17:5; 24:10; Acts 2:37, 42, 43; 4:33, 35–37; 5:2, 12, 18, 29, 34, 40; 6:6; 8:1, 14, 18; 9:27; 11:1; 15:4, 6, 22, 23, 33; 16:4; Rom. 11:13; 16:7; 1 Cor. 4:9; 9:5; 12:28, 29; Gal. 1:17, 19; Eph. 1:1; 2:20; 3:5; 4:11; Col. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:1, 11; Titus 1:1; 1 Pet. 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:1; 3:2; Rev. 2:2; 18:20.
Deriv.: pseudapostolos (5570), a false apostle.
Syn.: aggelos (32), a messenger, an angel.
Zodhiates, Spiros, The Complete Word Study Dictionary, New Testament, (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers) 2000, c1992, c1993.

 2006/4/18 5:52
Onesimus4God
Member



Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 186
Tickfaw, Louisiana USA

 Re:

Ironman,
Thank you for your kind words of exhortation. God bless you. I'm glad you were blessed and encouraged.

Meagain,
Apostles are not ordained, they are called by God. As for your claims of misuse, why not first apply your criticism to the pastor. Surely there are more "false" pastors in the church than apostles. Anyone can attend a bible college and apply for a pastorate. They are set in place by popular election. Where is God in this process? Where is God's anointing?
Yes, there are those who rise up with a boat load of foolishness and "new" things to thrill the heart of the carnal. The Apostle is not interested in the new but in what was set forth 2000 years ago, by Jesus Himself and fortified by Peter and Paul.
Their messages were filled with love and personal sacrifice. They encouraged a church that operated totally different from the way church does not. Ironman did a good job of pointing this out.
The real apostles? There is no room for them in modern church, not for real ones. Why? Because they are special messengers that direct their message to the spirit of man in truth and life. They call for man to repent and turn back to God in obedience to His Word. This turns the "seeker sensative" away and reduces income for man's treasury. They speak of self sacrifice, and giving of one's self to the less fortunate. This means an investment of time and resources. "Time"? "Oh we cannot spare time".
Sigh. There is much that is not right in churches today. Part of the reason is that they have made the true apostle and prophet outcasts, and made the pastors of electioneering their kings. Believe it......or not.

"O"


_________________
Lahry Sibley

 2006/4/18 10:24Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Brethren
bro O indeed as we've established the apostle is called of God to that work as are the others in the ministry whether they be preachers, prophets etc. Somewhere down the line the enemy made it so the apostle and prophet (though with the prophet this seems to always be the case) were seen as loony or just not believed for some reason. There is indeed no room for such people in the Church as we know it therefore the idea that the Lord would raise some like these up isn't popular because somehow people know that they will do more than rock the boat...they will be used to tip it right over. those false apostles will try and set themselves up to be super-pastors so they have sway in the current system so as to build their own kingdoms. This current system will be destroyed soon by the Lord and we will revert (peaceably or kicking ans screaming which one is up to you) to the Church as she was in the early days.

the apostolic has to do with the governance of the Church and preserving thereof in it's purest form. it involves a jealousy for the things of God which is offensive to most and harships which are unique. to those who are seeking the Lord in truth his work is most edifying but it threatens those who seek their own kingdoms. i've been learning so much about this work since the Lord has called me to the apostolic. i can attest to this calling and indeed anything else in terms of work pertaining to the things of God is purely by His own grace and mercy because i can't boast saying "well i jumped through this and that hoop" but like Paul said, if anyone should boast, it should be in the Lord!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/18 13:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Onesimus4God wrote:
Meagain,
Apostles are not ordained, they are called by God. As for your claims of misuse, why not first apply your criticism to the pastor. Surely there are more "false" pastors in the church than apostles. Anyone can attend a bible college and apply for a pastorate. They are set in place by popular election. Where is God in this process? Where is God's anointing?
Yes, there are those who rise up with a boat load of foolishness and "new" things to thrill the heart of the carnal. The Apostle is not interested in the new but in what was set forth 2000 years ago, by Jesus Himself and fortified by Peter and Paul.
Their messages were filled with love and personal sacrifice. They encouraged a church that operated totally different from the way church does not. Ironman did a good job of pointing this out.
The real apostles? There is no room for them in modern church, not for real ones. Why? Because they are special messengers that direct their message to the spirit of man in truth and life. They call for man to repent and turn back to God in obedience to His Word. This turns the "seeker sensative" away and reduces income for man's treasury. They speak of self sacrifice, and giving of one's self to the less fortunate. This means an investment of time and resources. "Time"? "Oh we cannot spare time".
Sigh. There is much that is not right in churches today. Part of the reason is that they have made the true apostle and prophet outcasts, and made the pastors of electioneering their kings. Believe it......or not.

"O"




Hi "O",

Your first sentence --- "Apostles are not ordained they are called" ------- is right in the Definition I left you.
But ALL Offices should "be called" ... but they're not ... they "Choose" their gift(s) for ego sake ... even so-called Apostles and Prophets.

What the problem here is, is that we've taken a Greek Word and made "our own" definition out of it.

The best Lexicons in the world, which I have, will give you the same definition over and over.

If you tell me "staight means bent" and I go to Webster's and look up "straight" ... will I find that it means "bent" ?

This "Apostolic movement" stuff started sometime back and has close ties to William Branham and others - who wanted "a New Thing" ... the thread I started and why I started called .... "Where is all of this leading to ?"


We've taken a Greek word and decided, we don't like what it means ---- so we're going to change it to make ourselves something and give us MORE AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH.
And that's the truth.

You can say all that you've said about Apostles, but they are JUST MISSIONARIES .... and by "Just" ... you'd have to understand that that is the One Calling, I have the MOST respect for.
They are #1 to me and #1 to God -- as HE listed it that way ... Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.

The Apostles go to foreign or Home missions and "build and start churches" .... secondly ... for the protection of the Church, which is a definitie #2 --- you need the prophets to distinguish 'real from false', etc. etc. that they do --- then as the Church is there to bring them to --- He sends out our evangelists ... and then we need Pastors and Teachers for these churches.

Although "Watchman" is not mentioned in the N.T., some have called themselves that -- even some who's sermons are on this Website ---- as they watch over doctrines, trends, current events,etc. ... any which way the wind blows and where the enemy is trying to get into the Church.

If that is what IRONMAN feels called to --- God Bless Him. Nothing wrong with putting 100% of your waking hours into that.

And "O" --- your whole post is talking about Prophets - not Apostles.

Are Watchman Prophets ..... sometimes, but not necessarily all.

Please understand that we can't go 'beyond what is written' and MUST use the Dictionary/Lexicon for the language it was Written In.

This new "Apostolic thing" is not right and hasn't been since it began about 50 years ago --- for the most part.

Not trying to pop bubbles or hurt anyone ... but there are SO many gifts in the N.T. that God can give to any one person .... If we stay in "Spirit AND Truth" and humility ..... each will be given 'more than their share', without making up new definitions for the old.


Lord Bless you both.

Annie

 2006/4/18 17:34





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