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warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 God created Evil?

I have a question.During street evangelism and other places i have been confronted with this question several times. So much so that i think it is becoming wide spread amongs't the unsaved. The question starts like this.



1 Did God create all things?

2 Yes.

1 So then he created evil?

2 No.

1 Why?

2 Evil came through Adams sin which Satan caused. He is the root for the evil.

1 Didn't God create Lucifer?

2 Yes.

1 So then God created Evil.

2 God made satan perfect. And he made all things perfect. Satan still had the will to sin against God. He wanted to be God so he became jealous and went after his creation.

1 But isn't God all knowing?

2 Yes.

1 So since God is all knowing and he created all things, doesn't that mean when he created lucifer he knew the evil that was in him? Didn't he know that satan was going to rebel? How do you make something perfect and yet it has the ability to sin, which by the way is a flaw? Don't give me that free will stuff. Don't give me that "God didn't create robots" either.

I've tried many different answers but this question has by far been more of a stumbling block to me then any other question that I've heard. Please Help me.

 2006/4/12 17:54Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: God created Evil?

try this:

1 Did God create all things?

2 No

1 Eh?

2 He didn't create Sin because Sin is whatever is not of God.

1 How did Sin come about then?

2 Lucifer who God created perfect, rebelled against God thus creating Sin.

1 So Lucifer created Sin?

2 No Sin is the reaction to the action of going against God

1 But doesn't God know everything?

2 Yes

1 So He knew Lucifer would sin and because God created him, and knew he would sin God indirectly created sin.

2 No

1 What!!!!????

2 Knowing something will happen and making it happen are 2 different things, like telling a child not to touch a hot cooker and knowing they probably will when your back is turned is different to holding the childs hand against a hot cooker.

-------------------------------------------------

try that, i look forward to others input.

matt


_________________
matt

 2006/4/13 3:14Profile









 Re:

Matt, as always, I sure do appreciate your posts and your spirit.

Hope all is well in your new happy life.

Don't let Satan rob either of these things from you.
You've been a blessing to me.

Lord Bless. See ya when He comes.

Love.

Annie & Co. :-)

 2006/4/13 3:40









 Re: God created Evil?

warriorofgod,
If you go to this link: [url=http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/browse.shtml]Answers from the evidence bible[/url]
Scrolll right down to the bottom and see under suffering there may be some very helpfull info there for you concerning 'Evil'. There are also many other helpfull witnessing tools there. They are 100 of the most common questions and objections. I really hope that helps, it has me when witnessing. :-)

 2006/4/13 9:08
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: God created Evil?

Dear Warriorofgod,

Have you ever endured immense pain just because you knew later it would bring you great joy?

You have brought up actually two topics I wish to approach. 1) Did God create evil? 2) If not, then why does evil exist? (This leads into another question: If God knows the future, then doesn't that mean He created evil?)

1) Did God create evil?

God did not create evil. Neither did God create anyone or anything to be evil. Rather, evil chose it's own existence. The question is then, how did evil come to be?

The first thing God created were the angels. They were mighty servants of God whose power was great and glory shined brightly. The last thing God created was humanity who was also the weakest of creation. Humanity was like a baby, while angels were likened to adults. Humans were created to have a close intimate relationship with God. Angels were created to be servants.

Both Humans and Angels were created perfectly. God was a master designer and He made no flaws. Both were designed for the utmost goodness. Both were limited in that neither could over power God. However, in each He also gave a choice.

The angels have to obey God's every command. They cannot deny Him. When Jesus says, "Leave that man." They must obey. Humans, however, do not have to obey God. Jesus can say to a man, "Jump ten times." That same man can laugh at Jesus, and then kill Jesus. Why is that? The angels cannot believe in lies. They know the truth. Humans can believe in lies. They can believe in false God's. We are not forced to trust in God. We can either choose to trust in God, or not.

The angels, however, also have the freedom to tell lies. They have freedom of knowledge. They can derive ideas of the utmost evil. Our human minds are limited. We learn and grow over time. We need to be counseled, explained, disciplined, and taught. We are ignorant and naive creatures who live and walk in faith. Another way of saying this is that we have free will. We have the freedom to believe in and love whatever we want.

The angels were created first with great power, and humans were created last. However, we were created in the image of God. Because of this, God valued us immensely. We were created to reflect the greatness of God, that being His love. Lucifer, knew this about us, and was immensely jealous of us. Satan said, "Look at those pathetic and weak human beings. It is no fair that God has given them so much. I was created first. They were created last. I should have all the blessings that they are enjoying." He hated us because God cherished us so greatly. God saw the jealousy and hatred in Satan's heart. And because of this, God stripped Him of His glory. He fell, like a mourning star.

Because of this, Satan sought to destroy God. He wanted to be God. He wanted everyone to worship him. Additionally, Satan's anger and hatred for us grew even deeper. Satan blamed us for his fall. Of course, Satan could not do anything to God. How could Satan possibly hurt God? The only way was to corrupt God's most cherished prize. He would corrupt humans beings.

Of course, Satan cannot force us to do anything. All Satan can do is tell us lies. He can tempt us. And so, he went into the garden and tempted Eve. Both Adam and Eve believe in Satan, which lead to the birth of evil.

You must understand that evil came into existence by both demons and humans interacting. If there was never humanity, Satan would have never become evil. He would have never been jealous. If there was never Satan, then Eve would have never been tempted. She would have lived forever in the garden and never sinned. However, when these two came into conflict, evil was birthed.

The reason you must understand that evil came about by two coming into conflict, is because God had created two perfect beings. As such, God did not create evil. These two beings chose to come into conflict with each other. The Devil chose to be jealous of us, and hate us. We chose to listen to his lies. It was our choice.

In addition to this, it is important to realize that "Only God is good." These were the words of Jesus. And so, for evil to come into exist, it must be separated from God. Thus, evil resulted in the separation of us and God.

2) If not, then why does evil exist?

If God is truly good, then He would bring justice to all and vanquish evil. We know this to be true. We know that good seeks to be good, and as such, it means stopping evil from being evil. Good brings an end to evil. And so, if God is good, why is there evil? Why does He not stop it?

Some people might say, "because He can't." However, if God cannot stop evil, then we are all in trouble. Evil results in destruction and end. This means eternity cannot exist because eventually, evil will bring it to an end.

Obviously, God is great and intelligent. God would have never allowed evil to gain such a power. He did not allow anything or anyone to have power that is equal or greater than His own. Rather, everything has been limited so that no one or no thing can exist eternally in constant conflict with Himself. Can you imagine if He had? Can you imagine how terribly it would be if for eternity there was always a war between good and evil?

God is all powerful. There is nothing that can stop Him. Thus, while God did not create evil, He allows it to exist. But why? What does God let evil continue? Why does He not stop it?

In the beginning, God dreamed of having a wife. He didn't need a wife, He wanted one. He wanted someone who would willingly choose to love Him, and be able to share in His delight. God is a creator and He likes to create. He wants someone to share in His creations and to help care for His creations. But how can God do that? How can God create a wife? If He creates a wife, then she is not a wife, but rather she is a child. A child does not choose her parents. A wife, however, chooses her husband.

In order for a person to be able to choose God, she would have to be separated from Him. God is good, and to be separated from God means that she would have to know evil. She would have to choose her own birth, meaning, she would have to choose God freely. For that to happen, God would have to allow evil to exist. She would have to live in evil for a time, away from God, with freedom to willingly choose God who is good to save her and transform her into good.

God did not create evil, but He knew how it would come into existence. He knew that if He created all these things, it would naturally be born. As such, God set the stage, and pressed the buttons. God knew evil would come. God knew that neither angels or humanity, no matter how much they wanted, could be good without Him. And so, he let them be and let them have their freedom. He allowed evil to be birthed, and to exist.

It is important to realize this. God did not create evil. God only allowed it to exist. God allows evil to exist. This means God can stop evil at any time. God is in control. He is the master of all things. But why?

God is allowing evil a time, so that all the people on earth may have a chance to come to Jesus. He is allowing everyone a chance to repent. God is allowing people to have a choice to come to Him. He has given us that freedom. We can choose to deny Christ or accept Christ. When we accept Christ, we are born again. This means we have chosen our own birth into goodness. This also means we have chosen to be God's wife.

One day, evil will be vanquished, and all those that belong to God, will become the bride of Christ. God will destroy all evil by locking it away in a prison called Hell. They will be permanently separated from all that is good. Evil will no longer have any power or freedom.

Christ will then take His bride, the Church, and glorify her. She will be married to Christ. We will be eternally united as one with Jesus. We share in all that God is, and all that God does. We will help Him create. We will be filled with God's love so that we can in turn love everything else. We will be reflector's of God, just like the moon reflects the sun.

We were never created to be God. That is the lie the Devil told Eve. If you eat of this tree, you will become God. We were created to be a vessel of God. This means we were created to bring God glory and worship by allowing God to live in us, and to shine in us.

God has allowed evil to exist for a greater good. Evil has been permitted a time, until all the sons of God come into glory. When all of God's people come to Christ, then the end of evil will come.

Hebrews 2:10 (NIV)
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

Romans 8:28 (NASB)
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.


In conclusion, it is important to realize that all the evil and suffering that exists has a purpose in God's plan. That does not mean they are right or okay, or that God likes them. God does not like sin. However, God endures this immense pain and hurt watching His beautiful creation be corrupted and suffer, so that people may be saved. Isn't that amazing to think about? God endures immense suffering for us. God loves us so much that He endures immense pain and suffering so that we can have a chance to love Him in return.

Whenever you think that God is evil, rebuke those thoughts. They are from the Devil. Be reminded of Christ. God is so good and loving that He gave His only son to die on the cross for us. Jesus had the power at any time to end all evil. Jesus did not have to suffer. He could have called down legions, trillions times trillions of angels to His service. He could punished every person on earth and be completely justified. But He didn't. Jesus gave His life. He willingly suffered and endured pain. He didn't fall into temptation. He resisted. Jesus did this for us. Tell me, who could ever be so good as God? Who could ever do what Jesus did?

I hope this helps,
May Christ be yours and also be the one to confirm this in your heart,

In Him,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/4/13 10:59Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

We discussed this topic at length once in [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=5061&forum=35&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=1]Did God Create Evil?[/url]


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/4/13 11:15Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Hey beenblake,

Altough you direct this to warriorofgod I do have a question. You have some good insight in your post which makes it enjoyable to read, however I have a question. :-)

Quote:
beenblake wrote:
You must understand that evil came into existence by both demons and humans interacting. If there was never humanity, Satan would have never become evil. He would have never been jealous.



Where do you read that satan became evil due to being jealous of humanity?

Btw, the following text which I had to lookup came to mind:
[b]Rev 22:11[/b]
[i]11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.[/i]

In the Dutch NBG translation its translated that the unjust will become more unjust and the filthy more filthy and the righteous more righteous and the holy more holy. God is really seperating His people from the world. :-) Evil in itself might not be good but it sure does make a division and gives us - thanks to the the Lord Jesus Christ - a clear choice for Him.

Even angels had a choice, but as for what this chapter in the story goes its largely unknown to us, or atleast to me. :-P According to the Bible God will end up with people who really sacrifice themselves and chose out of free will to serve Him and to live for Him! Its very awesome that God can turn evil to His benefits.

Would satan want to crucify Jesus if he knew what would happen? We truly have an amazing God who is in full control! :-D
While evil thinks to be freely released pretending to have full room to act in reality it is in subjection to just the amount of freedom God gives! Thinking of it it's almost hilarious how satan and his demons think to get rid of God's plans by killing His Son only to find out that it was to happen. :-)


_________________
Jonathan Veldhuis

 2006/4/13 11:39Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Or in this link: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10266&forum=36&0]God created Evil?[/url] :-P


_________________
Jonathan Veldhuis

 2006/4/13 11:59Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Warrior4Jah,

Quote:
Where do you read that satan became evil due to being jealous of humanity?



In the cannonical bible as we know it, there is not a scripture that speaks of why or how Satan fell. The bible is the story of man's redemption through Christ. The scriptures testify to the son of man. The bible was written for humanity.

There does exist a book of called the "Book of Adam" or "The Life of Adam and Eve." These books however have been rejected by the Church for various reasons, those of which I do not know. These books tell about the fall of Satan in relation to Adam and Eve. According to this book, Satan fell because when God created Adam, He collected all the Angels together in order to worship and serve Adam. However, the Devil said He would never worship something that was created after him. God saw the heart of the Devil, and he fell.

What I wrote above was the revelation given to me by Christ. Of course, not many will accept this. I have no proof or evidence of it's accuracy, except to say that if it is true, Christ will affirm it. If not, then I shall recieve my due punishment in Heaven for spreading lies.

Either way, we do know that the Devil is a fallen creature which means that God did not create Him in the fallen state. We know God did not cause the Devil to fall either, because God would have just created the Devil in the fallen state. Rather, the Devil chose to fall.

Additionally, since God is perfect in every way, we know that the Devil could never have a reason to hate God Himself. Rather, there must have been something about us that caused the Devil to hate God.

Quote:
According to the Bible God will end up with people who really sacrifice themselves and chose out of free will to serve Him and to live for Him! Its very awesome that God can turn evil to His benefits.



How awesome God is!!!

Quote:
Would satan want to crucify Jesus if he knew what would happen?



Have you ever known anyone that hated you so much that even though they could not win against you, they still tried to hurt you in every way they could??

We know the demons knew who Jesus was as the bible confirms this. They obey every command of Jesus. The demons believe in God. Paul confirms this in the bible. Additionally, the Devil has known from the beginning that he would lose. When the Devil tempted Jesus, the Devil knew he would not win. The Devil still tried because He hates God so much. His hatred is so strong against us and God, that he never stops trying.

Thankfully, God's love is so strong for us that He never stops trying. Even though Jesus knows that some people will not come to Him, it doesn't stop Jesus from loving these people or from trying to draw them to Him.

No matter what the Devil may say or do, we know God is in control. He planned this all out with such perfection, He will not fail.

God certainly is good and great!!!

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/4/13 12:34Profile
Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re:

Did God Create (evil or freewill)we know that satan discoverd his own wisdom and added it up.would it be wrong to say that God did create evil,for those who would chose it? we know for every effort force applied,their is a equal reposing force,in natral law.Yes God created everything! for a reason,are we to know why God does the things that he does? no.

 2006/4/13 12:43Profile





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