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  What do you think is the main sign of Jesus second coming?

Friends,

I saw this question in a sermonindex survey and it prompted a question. Is it possible that the second coming of Jesus will be a Spiritual (metaphysical) one and not necessarily a physical one? In other words, the second coming of Jesus could be in the hearts and souls of mankind, wherein we learn to "love one another as He has loved us" and follow His teachings. This would be in line with the prophesy of Isaiah, where we hammer the sword into plowshares and learn war no more. Just a thought that has been on my mind for a long time.

Jake

 2003/12/27 12:51
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 Re: What do you think is the main sign of Jesus second coming?

Quote:
Is it possible that the second coming of Jesus will be a Spiritual (metaphysical) one and not necessarily a physical one?


Hi Jake, intresting thought but Scripture is very clear that this is a physical appearing of the risen person, Jesus Christ.

[b]Matthew 24:23-24 (niv)[/b] - At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to decieve even the elect- if that were possible.

From this verse it clearly shows that they are looking for a person the Christ and he warns don't believe it, for many false person claiming to be Christ will appear and do miricales. For jesus says later on.. 'as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.'

[b]Matthew 24:30 (niv)[/b] - At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

[b]Revelation 1:7 (niv)[/b] - Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

Its quite clear that 'Every eye will see him'.


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 2003/12/27 17:37Profile
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[b]1 Thessalonians 4:16 (niv)[/b] - For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

'For the Lord himself' :-o Jesus himself will come down..

[b]2 Thessalonians 1:7 (niv)[/b] - and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

Jesus will come physically with his powerful angels. 'his angels' are physical angels come for a purpose, just as in the following passage:

[b]Revelation 1:1 (niv)[/b] - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/12/27 17:48Profile









 Re:

Wrtbooks,

Thanks for your response. One thing that leads me to guess (I hope some guessing is permissible) that this is a Spiritual return is that people are looking for a physical return, as noted in Matt: 24, as you quote, but find false Christs. This may indicate that they are looking in the wrong place. Another is that He comes in the sky, rather than on earth. A third is that "every eye will see him" even the dead. THis seems to be something that reaches beyond a physical appearance. This whole thing is a mystery and shall remain so until it actually happens. I'm just trying to keep open possibilities in my mind, so as not to close any doors.

Jake

 2003/12/27 19:40
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This may indicate that they are looking in the wrong place. Another is that He comes in the sky, rather than on earth. A third is that "every eye will see him" even the dead. THis seems to be something that reaches beyond a physical appearance.


Yes you are right in that it kinda seems it could be something more of revelation rather than a physical appearing. But you have to keep in mind some things:

- To me it seems that Christ stays in the clouds and we get caught up to him.

- People see the 'sign of the Son of man' in the sky.

In either case we know that Christ 'himself' is coming down from heaven to gather the elect.

One other thing to note is that he left in a certain way off the earth and he will come back in the same way he left:

[b]Acts 1:9-11 (niv)[/b] - After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Notice is says 'before their very eyes' and also 'come back in the same way you have seen him go'. hmm :-o


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 2003/12/27 19:49Profile
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 Re: What do you think is the main sign of Jesus second coming?

Jake,

I believe there are spiritual comings of our Lord (I personally see Mt. 24 fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem), but I think there will be a final physical consummating coming, a curtain call if you will. The main reason I reject all comings being spiritual is the fact that I believe in the resurrection of the body, the flesh. I believe it will be raised imperishable and will finally and fully be governed by the Spirit of God.

I believe in the resurrection of the body and the life of the world to come.

openairboy

 2003/12/27 22:51Profile
Chosen7Stone
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 Re:

I think the main sign of Jesus' second coming is going to be those seven years of tribulation...it's all just a matter of counting off the years once it starts. As far as when that starts, I'm looking for some kinda over-publicized false treaty with Israel.


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Mary M.

 2003/12/28 13:31Profile
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I think the main sign of Jesus' second coming is going to be those seven years of tribulation...it's all just a matter of counting off the years once it starts.


Isn't it intresting that Jesus never mentioned a seven year period. When he mentions time, its to tell us that we will really not know what time it will happen.

[b]Matthew 24:36 (niv)[/b] - [color=CC0000]"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.[/color]

[b]1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 (niv)[/b] - Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Even though that day will come like a 'thief in the night' when it all of a suddens comes we will be ready in our hearts if we are walking right with God.

[b]1 Thessalonians 5:4-8 (niv)[/b] - But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.


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 2003/12/28 13:48Profile
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 Re:

Perhaps you're right -- I went through Revelation and looked at all the mentions of the number seven. Seven churches/lampstands/stars, the scroll with seven seals (5:1), the Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes which represent a sevenfold Spirit (5:6), seven angels with seven trumpets (8:2), voices of seven thunders (10:3), seven thousand people killed in an earthquake (11:13), red dragon with seven heads and seven crowns (13:2), seven plagues (15:1), seven bowl judgments (15:7), and seven kings (17:10).
Anyone have any insight? Greg (wrtbooks) -- don't you know the symbolism for Biblical numbers? What does seven represent?


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Mary M.

 2003/12/28 18:48Profile
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Anyone have any insight?


Well the whole idea of 7 years for the tribulation comes primarly from this one old testament Scripture in the book of Daniel:

[b]Daniel 9:27 (niv)[/b] - He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.


Also there is a use of the word time, times and half a time.
time= 1 year
times= 2 years
half a time= 1/2 year
Thats the way the intrepret these words so it fits into the 7 year timline here are two verses that are intrepreted in that manner:

[b]Daniel 12:6-7 (niv)[/b] - One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these atonishing things are fulfilled?" The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

[b]Revelation 12:14 (niv)[/b] - The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.


Its intresting to note that the book of daniel, matthew 24 and revelation match up pretty good on some points, that can help in getting grounding on certain events and the timeline of the end times, but from my research and praying over the texts there are some things that fit but overall its very confusing and hard to intrepret. I believe its John Calvin who wrote a commentary for every book of the bible but for revelation (corrrect me if I am wrong). ;-)

Quote:
Greg (wrtbooks) -- don't you know the symbolism for Biblical numbers? What does seven represent?


Seven - denotes spiritual perfection.


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