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Discussion Forum : General Topics : wolves in sheeps clothing

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GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: wolves in sheeps clothing


Hey crusader,

If you like to listen to sermons, check out the sermon {Wolves} by Carter Conlon in the audio section. It is on page 9.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/3/29 23:15Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

Hi Annie

Sorry if i frustrated you with my second response. i show you why in the little time i have how i tend to fall towards the wolves in sheeps clothing being us rather then outsiders.

Galations 5:17 " For the flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

If our adam nature is thought about as a "wolf nature" this would also line up with romans discription of a fallen mans state.

Romans also says that Gods righteousness is on us through faith and in ephesians is says to put on the breast plate of rightiousness and the whole armour of God which is to protect us.

in Romans 7.22-23, 25 it describs the warring that is inside a christian.

The concept of a wolf and sheep living together would deffinitly be of the same actions as in the above scripture verse.

i once came from the teachings that the wolf in sheeps clothing had nothing to do with me and that it was other sinfull people. while Chewing on Gods word i am getting deeper into the fallen state of man this gives me a greater perspective on Gods glorious sinless nature and allows me to understand how much he loves me and is willing to make a covenat with me. it once again brings me into humility and shows me that while on this earth i must allow Christ to grow in me so that my flesh is subdued is this not our testimony of his power and might.

yes there is only 4 references to the word wolves in the bible but cross reference these with the old testiment and it opens up. the word wolf is a typology of a characteristic. i have had a wolf characteristic and i am very aware that with out the lords loving mercy i could fall into this characteristic very easily but i don't because just like paul i won't to win the race. When our flesh is placed under the law we can who we really are but God puts his Righteousness on us through our faith which no longer condems us under the law. notice that Gods Righteousness is put on us and that the armour is put on us. Many times when i have had dreams or saw visions i had to test my spirit and make sure that the interpretation was from God and not my fleshly nature because if it is from my flesh then it is false. please people when i put a post in it is to for me to grow in Gods understanding because God reveals his wisdom through out his body and not just to one person.

the fleshly nature of us is revealed through out scripture as different animals that is why we have discriptions in the old testiments of unclean animals in the bible. a false prophet is anybody who professes something from God when it is not. i have heard preachers who are Godly men miss the mark in this area but later on recant their words because they become aware that it was their interprtation and not the lords. to say that we do not have a wolf nature is to say that we cannot fall into these area's that are discribed hence breeding a prideful boast and exalting ones self above everyone else

have to go will be back :-)


_________________
karl rashleigh

 2006/4/1 11:03Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Crusader,

I think you should be calling it a "sinful nature" instead of a "wolf nature." There is a big difference.

To have a "wolf nature" means that it is your goal to go around undetected devouring sheep(Christians). I am hopeful that is not the nature you are battling against.

Also, I have yet to meet anyone in a sinless condition this side of the grave. We are all sinners saved by grace. Sin is no longer our master.

Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2006/4/1 15:52Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

hi murray

it is not our Goal to go around undetected devouring christians yet without Gods restraint and mercy is that not what our sinful nature does? yes sin is no longer our master once we have put on the rightiousness of Christ and it is this very knowledge that we must humble our selves and know that without God we our flesh would scream against him! Romans, Job and proverbs opens this up.

i once was full of violence but when the lord came into my life he revealed to me how wrong this was and by his Grace and mercy he changed me and gave me a strength in this area and taught me to love people. I know with in my spirit that if i walked away from God this area would rise again because it is God that reveals it and restrains it.

:-) cheers


_________________
karl rashleigh

 2006/4/2 4:47Profile









 Re:

Brother, we should not go beyond what is written and using terminology that God only applies to one type or group and not to others.

A true believer as Murray has said, has what is called our "flesh" and as he has clearly pointed out, "Scripturally", wolves are our to KILL sheep ... one cannot be saved and have that as their nature ( The "Nature" of a beast, is not stumbling or being tempted to or failing - it is consistent LIFESTYLE - "by nature".) ..... a wolf is a wolf and unless he gets saved and becomes a sheep, he remains a wolf. A sheep is a sheep and a wolf is a wolf and my cat is not a dog.

Only when we go 'beyond' what is written, that we'll not agree. There is no need to do that, because our flesh 'does' war with the Spirit and vice versa, so we don't need to redefine this reality to anything more than what the Word of God calls 'flesh'.
Those 4 verses I gave you is 'what is written' on wolves - only.

 2006/4/2 10:03
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

hi

i think it's best if i leave these kinds of ponderings from this site. i appreciate the comments but i feel some area's would remain stumbling blocks and of no merit if i continue to discuss it on this site, it will go around in circles. i try to stand out of the circle when it comes to foundational teachings as an effort to use a midrush study method. the reason being i saw a very large church group, fall to a false doctrine and alot of people hurt. if i had not questioned the teachings and view points then i would be still sitting in that church. a recent study found that 90% of people will say yes to something and back it if it has the majority of support whether or not it is true.

hey it's all good, said my question, no one had any comments for it, so i leave it there.

thankyou for your replies, on other issues i have enjoyed your anwsers and taken them on board.

crusader


_________________
karl rashleigh

 2006/4/2 11:08Profile









 Re:

It's good to ponder together crusader, but just not good to go beyond what is 'written'.

Are you saying that you "stand out of the circle" because you use "Midrash" ?

Then that would make sense of why you 'do' go beyond what is written, because Midrash shys 'somewhat' from "literal" interpretation and the Divine Inspiration of the Word. They "spiritualize" whatever they choose to - to an alarming degree ... there's some about Midrash on two recent threads here, if you want the links.
I'm strongly considering starting a thread on it because I see it's seeping in here of late.

Questioning teachings is good, as you see I not only "question" Midrashic Interpretation, I strictly come against it.

I'm also all for Good Discernment/Apologetic Ministries. So, I'm more with you on some things than you may think, even if we may disagree on some.

Don't give up dialogging/pondering on this site .... it's good for us to look at all sides. Some of the false prophets or teachers that ruined your Church may very well have been "wolves in sheep's clothing" ... our only point was .... "they aren't saved". Believe me, they aren't saved.

Paul was clear about that. "Watch your Life AND DOCTRINE CLOSELY" .... God puts EQUAL weight on our BELIEFS as he does on how we live our lives.

Equal. Truth is what He calls it ... and He is clear that those who do not Agape His Truth, WILL be given over to the Strong Delusion.

Some folks put more emphasis on just "holiness" and not "sound doctrine" and 'that' is Not Scriptural.

God Bless and hope you'll stick around.

Love in Him.
Annie

 2006/4/2 12:18
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re: thankyou

i like the spirit behind the words that you replied. i would love an email if there is a post on midrash so i can enter it. my training recieved to interprete scripture was Arthur pinks book called "the interpretation of scripture" plus other training but i found the rules aplied in the book are of the highest standard that i have seen and have not found a book on this subject that cover's the area's that he does.

one thing that i have learn't strongly in this post is that there are different view points and i must choose my words skillfully. it's all a learning curve! :-)


_________________
karl rashleigh

 2006/4/2 16:28Profile









 Re:

Hia crusader, Ha, not "skillfully" just "biblically". ;-)

Here's a blurb on Midrash for now but maybe, I may get up the umph to start a thread later on about it.

Quote:
"Midrash minimizes the authority of the wording of the text as communication, normal language. It places the focus on the reader and
the personal struggle of the reader to reach an acceptable moral application of the text. While it is always governed by the wording of the text, it allows for the reader to project his or her inner struggle into the text. This allows for some very powerful and moving interpretations which, to the ordinary user of language, seem to have very little connection with the text. The great weakness of this method is that it always threatens to replace the text with an outpouring of personal reflection. At its best it requires the presence of mystical insight not given to all readers."
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/03-Torah-Halacha/section-25.html

or http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/03-24.html

Quote a definition from a teacher of ... "Midrash is like a quadratic equation or a very complex second order differential equation, a thirteen or fourteen step equation."

The 14 "equations" Click on Chapter 2 ~
http://www.geocities.com/midrashcreed/mi.htm




This place is a learning curve for us All - Amen :-) - Thanks.

 2006/4/2 16:55
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Beenblake, I am not entirely comfortable with this statement. It seems that you are taking truth just one notch over the edge. I'd prefer to refer to myself as a sinner saved by grace. Christ within me is sinless, but my heart is far from it. (heart = will)

What does it mean that Christ is within us? Does it not mean that his Spirit is working through us and in us so that we decrease and he increases? I cannot think of a more powerful way to decrease than when we recognize our own bent to faill, and especially those times when we find ourselves falling into the very sin that we thought we were beyond.



Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."

Dear Diane,

I can understand your concern to give Christ all the glory, not keeping any to yourself. We should all seek to bring glory to Christ rather than seek our own. However, you must also know the change Christ makes in a person when they are born again. This change is of the utmost importance because Christ takes a sinner and transforms them into a saint, whose righteousness will shine.

When we are born again, we are given a new heart and a new Spirit. This change is significant and of the utmost importance. This change is symbolized by baptism. We die to ourselves and are raised into new life. Sin in us is dead. We are made into a new creation. We are completely new. There is no sin in us.

As a sinner, our heart/will is corrupted and far from the will of the Father. However, this change made in us, transforms our will and aligns it with the will of God. We are thus made new. We are sinners no longer.

Many Christians fear embracing this because we still fall into sin, and also because they fear pride. Christians still fall into sin, not because Christ is not strong enough, but only because God allows us to sin in order to keep us humble. Our sin reminds us that we need Jesus. His grace is sufficient. His power is enough.

Even though Christians may fall into sin, our heart is pure. (That is why our mistakes are called stumbling. A person who stumbles does not do so intentionally.) Our hearts have been been united as one with Christ, and there is no longer a division in us. In the above statement you said, "Christ within me is sinless, but my heart is far from it". If this is true, then a division still exists within you. There is you and Christ, and the two are separate. However, if you have been born again, then there are no longer two. There is one. You are one with Christ, and therefore, you are perfect and sinless just as Christ is perfect and sinless.

If you heart is far from being sinless, then your heart is also far from Christ who is sinless. If Christ lives in your heart, then your heart is sinless. God cannot dwell where sin is. Your heart must be cleansed by Christ, you must be born again, in order for Christ to dwell in you.

The goal of Christ is not to make us decrease. Rather, the goal of Christ is to make us increase. We were once poor and unwealthy sinners, who Christ has changed into children of God.

The nature of love is not to make oneself less, but to make other's more. I love my fiance dearly. I would never seek to make her less, or myself less. When we become husband and wife, we will be united as one. If she is made less, then I am made less.

Christ seeks to make us greater in order that He can be made greater in us. We were created to be a reflection of God, just as the moon reflects the sun. When the moon shines brighter, it brings glory to the sun. Likewise, for every good deed we commit, it makes Christ shine brighter. The greater our light shines, the more Christ is glorified.

By this, Christ has not made us decrease, rather, He has lifted us up, just as He was lifted up. We have died with Him. We have been resurrected into new life. We share in all that Christ is. We have a relationship with Him and to Him. We are one with Christ.

I could write many, many pages on this subject of the transforming power of Christ. Our new birth and oneness with Christ is so essential. That is what it means to be a Christian. If you don't know this, I plead with you to seek it out. Start a post asking others about it. Learn all you can about this. There is no greater joy then being totally consecrated to Jesus Christ, to be so united with Him as one that there is no longer "me" or "self" but only love.

I pray Christ will be yours,
In love,

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/4/12 11:58Profile





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