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 Unity vs. Pack Mentality.

It's human nature to want to find so-called "like-minded" believers.

When we think we do, then our hearts try to determine how many we can fit in our club.

Like beads of oil on top of water, we form ourselves into little seperate blobs.

We determine what is our club and then those outside the club become our objects of private ridicule. Sometimes, in public we can do this with "winkie smilies" to one another in that club.
I fear using "winkie smilies" for that reason.

Usually, the blobs or clubs are rated for their spirituality, in comparison to our own.

Instead of loving everyone equally, as God has commanded we do ... we section off people into little groups in our mind. Those who type well. Those who don't agree with us. And those who do. And the top of our lists, are those who praise us.

Is this human nature or what ? Of course it is. But we are to love without dissimulation. We're to do everything in our power to make it one lump or blob or club.
I pray we don't have wait for persecution to come to our nations to have this here.
I want it really bad, despite how some believe how I act. I want ONE club to belong to.
I want to feel accepted as I am, and if I say something wrong, come on at me please.

Doesn't mean we won't scrap sometimes ... but we vow to always love one another and even if we need a cooling off time from each other, that love is still there and we should determine to keep trying to bring each other back together as one. When I was a Moderator (which I wouldn't do again), I noticed I had a "fan club". That made me sorta sick inside, cuz I realized they were following me and posting to me, because they wanted to "stay in good with the Mods" as they say. I rejected that and wanted one club back then too. Didn't see it happen in my time anywhere, because of the pack mentality, sadly enough.

I'm not big on PMs either for this reason, because too much of those were posters laughing and mocking other posters behind their backs. That was sad. Then they'd say, "watch this" and post really sneaky to the poster they just spoke about. As if God can't see PMs. How sad we are.

If we don't strive for unity, we'll never see what we're praying for.

If I bite you in public, come back at me, I give you the right to bite back. I can take it. We're family. I may not respond right away, but give me time to sharpen my teeth, I'll be back. Ha. Actually, I may surprise you and come back with an apology.
Maybe I just misread your post or you misunderstood mine. Man, can that happen, huh ?

If you have someone befriend you ... don't be jealous if they talk to others.
Get happy, that the more folks we all talk to, the more we're fulfilling the greatest commandment and the sooner we'll see what some call "Revival" here.

If you see someone talking to someone you "don't like" and it bothers you ... that's not good.

One accord maybe has been said too much somewhere, but we can't blacken it out of our Bible's.

Paul said the only thing that stops this is "self" promotion. Let's not post for that reason.

Don't just come on and post your thing and wait for others to respond ... spend some hours on here getting to know everyone here as best you can. Read back pages randomly and see where every one's head is at, without trying to judge them. See where they're asking questions or saying something good somewhere. Don't assume you know anyone here, despite that you've been here a while. We all do that. But we don't know each other from Adam. Even if we've met or even spoke on the phone, etc. .... it's taken me 25 years to get to "know" my husband ... and even there .... I don't know his every thought and I shouldn't presume to. I dont' really know what he goes through once he goes to work, etc..
I can only go by what he says sometimes .... but no matter what anyone says to us, we have to love them and try to post to them with that intent ... to love them for their welfare, not to gain-say over them. Or to use their post to make ourselves look good for today.

Let's post for the welfare of another, even if it isn't polished or really soft, as long as our hearts are reaching out to someone, for their own welfare or for the welfare of the whole, would be even better.

It's not how pretty or kind you appear on the surface ... it's the motives of your heart that God sees. Is it self-righteousness, because we want a following or want to look good on a forum or is it truly that you just want to point folks to Jesus ?

Do we like to be complimented on our posts ? How do we feel inside when we read those praises ? Do we say on the thread, "Oh no no, it isn't me" but inside we're swelling over with some sort of joy. What type of joy is it ?
Pro 27:21 As the refining pot for silver, and the furnace for gold; so is a man to to his praise.

How do we feel when we post a thread and get no replies and it sinks to the back pages ?

Do we care if it does ?

Are we willing to walk alone for the welfare of others and be made the fool for Christ ?
Or do we want a fan club ?

Why do we post what we do ?
Before we start a thread do we ask ourselves or check ourselves for motives ?

We won't be perfect till we see Him, yet those who walk by faith, are in the other word in the Greek rendered as 'perfect' in English.

Only one way to be that type of perfect ... is to love without dissimulation and to stay "others minded", but not in the human sense of always performing well, but always feeling well about the person, regardless of what you're saying ... just check it with the Lord if you're in His Love for them or not. As best as you can and wanting to love every human that way. Keeping the whole group in focus and not just your shining toward one poster.
Someone may rub you wrong ... but just don't reply for a while and see if you can't learn more about them. Maybe you jumped on them once or twice, but let's try to determine to stay backed off from them and love them from a safe distance until we know where they're coming from and where we are ... but we still have to love them.

I haven't said a thing that we all don't already know but sometimes if we bring things out into the light, we can see better.

There are others here who can say all I've said, but a 100 times better. And I hope they'll do it and not because they've "attained" or want to make a show of this, but because they really truly don't want a following, but want to be a fool enough for Christ and love when we are one big blob.

Someone else can please, post on "Striving for Unity" and being Equals in God's sight.

Thanks y'all.



 2006/3/26 14:08









 Re: Unity

P.S. I fumbled through this writing last nite btw. Ha. When my eyes were fogged over too.
HELP !!!
HA.

But funny as it is, it was on my heart.

Love.
again

 2006/3/26 14:34
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Great post Annie.

I think this teaching by Zac Poonen goes right along with what is on your heart......Blessings in Him, Cindy

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10050&forum=34


_________________
Cindy

 2006/3/26 14:39Profile









 Re:

I just read that this hour Cindy.

It was pretty good. I love Zac, but this was the first article I thought he could have done better on. No man is God, so I don't expect that from myself or from him, but there were a few points that I thought were assumption.

I was hoping - when I saw your name on here that 'you' could write what it's like to have a pack come at you for your beliefs.

I don't want to write what our beliefs are and tried to leave that part out.

You and I have discussed "doctrinal purity" last year and the Church's need of it ... but just in this setting, when we are turned against for some reason or turn against others here ... I'd love to hear your perspective, IF you feel free or led to share.

God BLESS you.
Annie

 2006/3/26 14:48
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Wow! Annie, you sure packed a lot of thinking material into your post. And you hit a lot of nails on the head.

Sometimes I think I've heard more sermons on unity than any other (but not really). There seems to be a great deal of emphasis on getting along together and agreeing together. We ALL know those verses. But at times we may have felt like we were being silenced, squelched, and sort of told not to question the status quo because that would be promoting division. And we feel that we are at the mercy of those who are easily offended. We have to walk on egg-shells in order to have "unity".

I was pleased that you spoke of a different kind of unity - one based on an awareness of others and a desire for their WELL-BEING which includes their on-going need to mature.

Quote:
Let's post for the welfare of another, even if it isn't polished or really soft, as long as our hearts are or for the welfare of the whole, would be even better.


A lot of this is really just plain curtesy and sensitivity. We were suppossed to learn that in kindergarten - that is basic socialization.

However, there are lots of people who are not exposed to healthy socialization (for lack of a better word). Perhaps they have experienced a lot of disunity in their homes. And they relate to others the way they saw it modelled.

It may look like I'm trying to excuse the "law-breakers". Not really, I'm just trying to say that part of our striving for unity has to take into consideration that many can't and don't know how. That's reality. We can't have the ideal.

The real issue is learning how to handle inevitable disharmony and move towards unity. I think the Bible has a lot to say about that.

ex: A gentle answer turns away wrath. Prov. 15:1
" Why not rather be wronged.." 1 Cor. 6:7

I wish it said, "Agree to disagree"? Wouldn't that be helpful?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/26 17:32Profile









 Re:

Hia Diane,

I love this sharing because there is No 'pat' answer here and that's why and how come, we need to dialogue on this. There's no ONE answer except to get back in the ring and duke it out together and that's the word there ... TOGETHER.

I don't care if we get in a ring one on one ... but that NORMALLY causes the packs to come and take sides ... which causes more disunity.

If we could just sit back and be the spectators of the "two in the ring" and not PM each other about it or join in fighting for "our man" ... ha ... [guilty] ... than it 'may' come off better in the end between those two.

I dunno ... I have it in my head but it's like an endless subject, but a necessary and GOOD one .... and I enjoy this table talk and hope that we'll all give our thoughts because all are VERY VALID. Amen to that sister.

I think Cindy had a point though about this Zac Poonen thing too.

I just came back from the sick folks place and before I went there, I thought how we're like one big diamond.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many facets. And you may not see me way over here on the other side of this diamond or the rest on this side nor us you, but yet we're doing what God had fashioned us to do or what HE's doing, to make up His Jewel.

Sometimes we don't understand how the other of us is working, but we have to just "trust" that they are doing their Romans 8:28 for 29 thing.

I tried to explain myself once on a thread about the gifts and how because the one gift doesn't understand the way another gift works, that conflicts can come over that.

Like the person with the gift of mercy may not understand a roaring prophet type or a strict by the Word only teacher or the out going Evangelist. Ya know ?

We just need to "trust" that despite the bumping and grinding that goes into making us a part of that Diamond, that He is using it all to make us what we are and give each the "expression" of it.

I learn from everyone on here and come here to be "polished", yet I know my make-up and how God may do with me, what even I don't like doing, by my timid nature. Yeah, that's right ... more timid then most folks here at one time. Used to go to Church WHEN the service started and sit in the back cuz I was shy. :-(

I figure, if folks don't know this or that about me, then it goes without saying, that we don't know this or that about each other and threads where we tried to express ourselves are maybe on page 4 by now or further back.

Sooooooo, phew, if we could be ourselves and share our REAL hearts here ... I thought we could get a hold of this Unity thing and please our mutual God by it.

I dunno.

Thank you both and keep posting to this 'if' you feel to.

me again

 2006/3/26 17:59
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: risk

Quote:
Used to go to Church WHEN the service started and sit in the back cuz I was shy


Sounds like you are talking about me. Well, I didn't quite do that, but I did, and still do prefer to blend in with the wood work. In the past it was because it felt safer, but now, I think it is because I like creating a bigger picture, by working behind the scenes.

Quote:
if we could be ourselves and share our REAL hearts here


A grand "if"! I think we have to respect the fact that it is risky to do so, and not all are prepared to be that vulnerable before they know that it's safe.

Another thought: We can't expect others to be honest about themselves if we don't ourselves take the risk. But our risk-taking is an invitation for others to be honest too, knowing that they can trust us. And maybe they can see some of themeslves refected in us.

You have no doubt discovered that people on the sick forum trust you with their 'insides' once you express an ability to empathize - based, perhaps on your own experience.

I suspect that on a forum like this it is easy to hide behind our interest of Bible related issues/ social/political issues, etc. But even then, that's okay. God will work in hearts in his time. No conversation need be wasted.

Quote:
I don't care if we get in a ring one on one ... but that NORMALLY causes the packs to come and take sides ... which causes more disunity.


Sounds like your talking about politics. No, really people do tend to polarize to one side and then gather up more and more material to support their side. Here again, we have to take the risk, we can't generalize. I noticed the Bible inerrency thread, the one that took off like a rocket, appeared somewhat polarized at times, but a lot of fabulous material was presented - great food for thinking. It was worth the risk. I have to admit that when I first saw it I rolled my eyes and thought, "Here we go..."

I praise God for the times I am wrong. It' just like God to do a U-turn on something and take it a different direction.

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2006/3/26 19:34Profile









 Re:

Hi Diane, well I did a complete about face with folks after I had my life threatened.
I was so grateful to God for giving me my life back I became an Activist and extrovert. Strange it is to me. But I guess I needed that good swift kick to get out there before politicians and all for the folks I was advocating for alone. It worked but you know that it was Him and not me, fer shur.

I was just talking to a brother about "freedom of speech" ... yeah, and that is what now I read in your post.

Whether it's politics or what version of the Bible, we have to let everyone blabber to their hearts content because someday we won't be able to and people died for our right to free speech and are dying presently, this minute for the lack of it. :cry:

Anyhow, I don't think folks should air out their laundry list on forums. Not at all. That's what the Local fellowships are for.
If they want to here they're welcome but for their own protection I say they shouldn't.

This polarizing thing you bring up does trouble me. But not when folks "gather up more and more material to support their side"... no, that doesn't faze me in the least. I think it's healthy to do, even if they're wrong. ha. Because we're back to that freedom of expression and speech again.

I guess I see the clock ticking when these things won't be permitted and I want to yell ... "HEY EVERYBODY, say what you want now."
And if you don't like the subject, move onto one you do. Right ?

As long as no one is using bad language. I don't like that. But if they're just trying to express their feelings, beliefs, or frustrations in a non-cussing way, well, we're The Body and should be here for them. Right ?

I don't know. I guess freedom of speech has just come to my mind tonight and it does fit into this thread. If we're not interested in a thread, we shouldn't feel we're better than those who post on it. There's threads on here I have no interest in, but that doesn't make me better and them worse. I think I put "equal" in God's eyes in the first post ... I think ?

Well, thank you for putting thoughts out there.
At least maybe we got a chance to release some burdens. That's always good.

I feel like chatty cathy today on here. Guess it was a burden. ho-hum.

Thanks again Diane.
See ya around here. Doesn't it feel like a we're all in some big house in different rooms, yet still together, like a family ? Ha. Neat.

TTYL
Annie

 2006/3/26 22:06
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
I tried to explain myself once on a thread about the gifts and how because the one gift doesn't understand the way another gift works, that conflicts can come over that.



LOL.......Annie, I had this post I worked for over an hour on and my husband asked me to check something for him and bam, there goes my post.......Uggg. Must not have been something I should have posted :-P

Anyways, I quoted you up there because that is something I TRULY believe is a BIG problem in the church and that's why we see so much name calling. I can't tell you how many times I've been called a "legalist" or "pharisee"---by so called "spiritual" people. The reason is I think is because I'm a person who will not compromise those things the Lord has shown me to be truth-----for so called 'unity' sake. I think that's what bothers some---that I won't relent. The thing I think is ironic is that ALL of US have points of conviction that we will NOT back down on, but for some reason the areas where we are not "firmly set", we want those who are "set", to back down on those areas. I see that same thing in myself at times (the issues that are not that important to me, I can't relate to another's passion about).

The problem I see is that many professing believers do not have a WHOLE BODY mentality---thats' why the negative labelling of others and the us against them mentality. I'm sure that is extremely grieving to the Lord as He desires each of us to see the value of the other in our lives.

As for my part in the Body, I believe that it is the Lord's desire for me to share what He has shown me, but not to demand that others see it as I do. If what I was shown, whatever the topic or doctrine, is true, fruit will manifest---according to the Lord's timing. Many are threatened by various teachings/beliefs. Why is that? Is not the Lord able to overrule all that is not of Him? Seems to me when fur starts flying in the Body of Christ, that is a sign of a lack of faith that the Holy Spirit is able to do something, and that instead, man MUST protect what he/she perceives to be the truth. Some of the most vicious attacks I've seen come from those who "say" they are honoring God and protecting the Body of Christ. Instead, what I see is that those who are nasty (outright or masking the nastiness with spiritual sounding "words" for another), is a lack of faith and in that FLESH trying to take over and be the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not need our help. We are called to share the Word of God with others in love, and leave it to Him. Disunity comes when we don't ABIDE in HIM. That is not just some fluffly sounding love phrase. Abiding in Him means so many different things, yet it can be fully spoken in 3 words: TRUTH IN LOVE. They must go hand in hand..........this I know. Whereever TRUE unity is not, Truth is missing or Love is missing. Where true unity is----Truth and Love will be found---together, hand in hand.

Ah, I'm all "worded out".........Blessings sister. In Him, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2006/3/26 23:01Profile









 Re:

Aw too bad. Just when I was getting really into it, you said you were done. HA.

I don't write 1/50th of what I read. Actually, I'd have to say that may be even higher than 1/50. Guess I'm weird. I like to see what others think. I think it's so interesting.
Guess cuz I didn't get to raise children or something or cuz all I have is cats most of the day to "listen" to. HA.

I like "listening" more than running my own jaw.
Sometimes I can get running it though. Huh ?

Or my typing fingers go while I'm sleeping on here. HO !!!

I'm sorry that happened to your work. I had that happen to something I had typed to an unsaved guy who came onto a Christian forum years ago.
I posted it alright. But then I needed it years later, I guess cuz I didn't trust the Lord to give me the right words again. Ha. I tend to push this "no trust in the flesh" to it's limits and get fearful in the flesh that I'm in the flesh again. Haaa. Funny, but it can wear you out.

Anyhow. I like what you said. Because unfortunately, where I've been with this 'sound doctrine' stuff and ministries, which are good and all, but it puts a weight on you. So I took two years off to pray about it. Was it worth losing my peace and security that was being threatened or not ?
I guess what I got out of this rest time, was to look for people's fears. So much of what motivates us is "fears", of one kind or another.
Not a blanket statement, cuz there are genuine "heretics" out there ... but your average Joe or Josephine is just scared of something and we have to just pull back in that case and pray to see what that fear is in them, and only the Lord knows that. We've got enough of our own too. ha.
Fear of losing an imagined position, or loved ones, etc. etc.. I guess that is what you saw as a "lack of faith" and yes, that is the opposite of Fear, isn't it ?

Part of what you said, reminded me of, 'not eating meats offered unto idols if it will cause another to stumble' type thing. That was in the "lack of faith" part.

A very good book, I thought anyhow, was Nee's "The Body of Christ: A Reality".
I also liked "The Word" or something close to that about how to deliver the Word or preach or whatever. I gave it to a Pastor. It was good I thought.
I don't agree with everything Nee said, and for that matter, do we agree with everyone of our Authors, even here ?
I don't think we do, nor should we feel we have to. I love a lot of these Authors, but I'm not reformed theology, but I'll attend a reformed Church. I've loosened up a LOT since back when. Ha, believe it or not. Ho.

Anyhow, it sure was nice of you to take the time to try to come back twice. I am sincerely grateful that you didn't throw in the towel or worse. Ha. Ever feel like throwing the keyboard through the monitor ? Ho !!!!

I better be quiet now. Ha

Thank you Cindy and I'm going to chew on all of these posts. Now I'm sort of going down for the count (I hope :) ... feel free to get on me when you see me blowing it royally. I promise I'll try to listen. :)
I think I've banged my own head against the wall so many times, I must have gotten hard headed somewhere's along the way. Oh my.

God Bless you Cindy.
Love,
Annie

 2006/3/26 23:45





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