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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why don't sinners like us ?

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: TonyS2

I think also that it is hard for us to balance holiness/righteousness with love and compassion. The more 'holy' we [u]feel[/u] we are (from whatever personal definition of 'holy' we are using) the more arrogant or self-righteous we can become if not careful. It has to be the full package of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

I hesitate to say this but I really have to be honest, I have met some really mean acting Christians that seemed to be somewhat. But, we need to be loving and compassionate as Christ is and not go too far overboard with the whole "God hates sinners" thing. We have to consider all of God's counsel, but we need to focus on God's willingness to save sinners and when they trod that under foot it's on their own heads. We can't get a bad spirit because of folks actions towards God as if it were God feeling through us. He is much more longsuffering than we will ever be.

If I am hated as a Christian may it be because I was walking in the Spirit, yielding the fruit of the Spirit.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/24 16:55Profile
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 RobertW

Quote:

RobertW wrote:

If I am hated as a Christian may it be because I was walking in the Spirit, yielding the fruit of the Spirit.



Amen.


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Melissa

 2006/3/24 16:59Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
I don’t have an answer for us, but for me the answer is because of tonys’ hypocrisy. Having preached one thing, yet practiced another. I wish the clock could be turned back……. All I can do now is forget those things that are behind and press forward towards that high calling.

Me too Tony. The Lord has been dealing with me about this very thing, particularly when I was younger. Those who came to Christ did so not because of me but rather in spite of me. I praise God because he wants to restore what the locusts have eaten (my locusts from Joel 2:25).

Is the fruit of the Spirit manifest in my life? If not, then I need to know why. I've seen in my own life where I've taken this question to Him and He's has been very direct with me in providing responses. It's the Holy Spirit that brings conviction, not a critical spirit.

There's such a fine line (the Lord seems to be making this clearer but it's still very delicate) between walking in the Spirit versus walking in the flesh, it requires that we allow the Holy Spirit to continually search our hearts for our motives and to speak only as we're given utterance.


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Ed Pugh

 2006/3/24 18:01Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Sinners: Not OUR fix-up project

Melody Green writes

Quote:
How come so many sinners liked Jesus—but they don't like us very much.


Even today, unbelievers know that Jesus wasn’t stuck on himself, and he wasn’t looking for power, fame, and status. They also can spot pride or self-absorption in professing Christians, and they abhor by it.

We are to called present Christ’s nature – and people do respect that.

“And the boy Samuel continued to grow in stature and in favor with the Lord and with men.” 1 Sam. 2:26
“And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men.” Lk 2:52

“If it is possible, as far as it depends on you live at peace with everyone.” Romans 12:18
“If your enemy is hungry feed him.”

“Use your worldly wealth to gain friends so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.” Lk. 16:9

The sinners liked what Jesus did for them. His miracles were not showy arrogant displays, but were always acts of compassion for them.

Later on, when they became aware of the cost of following him, many turned away. But at least, they had a chance to experience his mercy and love. No doubt God would later bear that on their conscience.

Once, near the beginning of my ministry in a church, the Lord spoke to me in a dream, saying “They like you, but they don’t like the Jesus in you.” It turned out be true: They liked what I did for them, but they were unwilling to count the cost and put him ahead of their self-life. And they sure did not want to hear about any need to commit their lives to Christ.


But what do we do with people? We forget the process. We're usually worrying about how to clean them up before they're even caught! We want people to stop smoking, stop doing drugs, stop wearing clothes we don't like, dye their hair back from purple to brown, take the metal out of their faces, and generally clean up their act before—or shortly after—they've had an encounter with Jesus. We want a clean tidy church, clean tidy disciples, and clean tidy friends.

This is such a turn off. People hate feeling like they are someone’s project. They hate the subtle constant insinuations that they should change. Let’s face it, think how we feel if our spouse was always telling us to change.
In our evangelical zeal, we also have to preserve the boundaries of respect and love. The “sinner” on is not OUR fix-up project.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/3/24 20:06Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
Quote:
I am a sinner and I like you.



If you claim to have been born of His Spirit, than you cannot be a sinner. I ask you, who are you?



OK I am not a sinner I am Perfect! :-(


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Mr. Bill

 2006/3/24 22:39Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

This is such a difficult thing to figure out. To not be so full of goodwill, and compassion that we become humanistic in our presentation while at the same time not being so separated from the world that we lose touch with humanity.
True that many followed Christ after they saw miracles, but read John 6, and look at their reaction when Jesus begins to speak "hard sayings."
Unfortunately it seems that many in the church today expect failure in their walk, rather than victory. So when the world looks at us they see those who are really no different than they are.
I remember my boss asked me once about Christianity, and I began to tell him how we could be free from sin through Christ. He asked "well what if you do sin?"
I said "you can be forgiven"
He said "oh so it's just like the catholics going to confession but living however they want?"
After this, I then began to ask GOD about this, because we should be a holy people free from sin, and death.
Bottom line though is to love people enough to tell them the truth about their soul, and their destination outside of Christ for "faithful are the wounds of friend" and to love them enough to help them physically as well.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/3/24 23:43Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: sinners, sin,

Quote:
If you claim to have been born of His Spirit, than you cannot be a sinner. I ask you, who are you?



Wooooow here! The bible doesn’t say anywhere that born-agains are no longer sinners. Some may think they are no longer sinners, but they are in denial. The world can see that, and that’s why they mock the faith. Think of the prodigal son. He came to the Father still smelling like pigs. In the same way when we come to Jesus, we still have some of our bad habits, rotten thinking, fears, worries, old ways. They don’t all immediately disappear. That happens through the sanctifying work of the Spirit over the course of our lives.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. 1Jn 1


No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6

This verse is talking about those who are still eating the pig-husks of this world, and haven’t repented – ie turned around, faced a new direction, decided to follow Christ. They just THINK that they are.

6If we claim to have fellowship with him
yet walk in the darkness
we lie and do not live by the truth.

I believe that one of the biggest turn-offs to non believers is the unwillingness of Christians to look honestly at themselves.
Quote:
OK I am not a sinner I am Perfect!


I suspect that you are just throwing out an off-the-cuff reponse to a close-ended question. I challenge you to think this through a bit more.

As we grow in our faith we become more and more conscious of our fallenness. And that keeps us close to our Lord. We see our need of his mercy daily. That makes us more merciful toward others, more humble, and in the long run- a good testimony of our Lord.

There is an “if”in the following verse:

7But if we walk in the light,
as he is in the light,
we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son,
purifies us from all[b] sin.

Notice, it does not say, “if you asked Jesus into your heart 30 years ago… or something about one’s distant PAST.

It’s all about how we walk now. 1 John shed a lot of light for us.

The proof is in our walk.

Diane


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Diane

 2006/3/25 6:21Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Diane,

I guess the difference is sin is no longer our master.

Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2006/3/25 6:51Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Quote:
If you claim to have been born of His Spirit, than you cannot be a sinner. I ask you, who are you?



Some may think they are no longer sinners, but they are in denial.
Diane





There you go you win the gold star for the correct answer. :-P


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Mr. Bill

 2006/3/25 9:30Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Can you be a sinner and a saint at the same time? Can a 'sinner' be holy?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2006/3/27 14:04Profile





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