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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : "The Betrayal Of The Ages", a documentary on the de-emphasis of the 'New Birth'.

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RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

WHAT WAS DONE WAS DONE

McIntyre continues along this line, “Finney could not undo what he had done. The die was caste. All the clichés and quackery epitomized by Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry began here. Charles Finney's methods, in the hands of incompetents and charlatans would ultimately produce millions of spurious conversions. The "methods" became the easiest way for ungifted and lazy men to produce "results.""

It was like giving a gun to a six-year-old child. Evangelists like D.L. Moody used some "methods" to good effect. Others, less gifted, abused the "methods" and brought reproach on all evangelists. The "methods" were not widespread until Billy Sunday, the model for Lewis' Elmer Gantry. Though well meaning, Sunday popularized the tally system, emphasizing the number of people who "walked the sawdust trail" instead of how many people "the Lord added to the Church."

Sunday popularized the practice of "coming forward" as a symbol for the sinner who wanted to "get right with God." Despite this, Sunday in the beginning still relied on the after meeting where counselors would deal with awakened sinners one-on-one. He never led people in a formula "salvation prayer.”


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/7 17:56Profile









 Re: "The Betrayal Of The Ages"

Robert, this is very good and very good of you to go through the trouble to put this up for us.

His Blessings to you.
Annie

 2006/3/8 1:19
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

PREACHERS BECOMING CELEBRITIES

Perhaps we could lay much of the problem at the feet of the use of the modern day 'press'. When 'meetings' were advertised and covered in the news papers suddenly there was an added pressure to have 'results'. After all, who wants to report that the meeting was a bust?

D.L Moody preached his last sermon at the Great Convention Hall in Kansas City MO on November 16, 1899. his message title was,'Excuses.' He died on December 22 of that same year, never seeing the 20th century. Before the days when Rex Humbard would become the father of modern day televangelism, D.L. Moody is credited with aiding in the development of the modern newspaper as they were used for creating the great wave of interest in this one very public evangelist and the meetings in general. Preachers were becoming celebrities and icons.

Again, as with Finney, so with Moody, the 'new measures' of using the press was in itself [i]not[/i] a bad thing. But is was like giving a six year old a gun for the incompetent. Some people simply cannot handle the popularity and the pressure to compromise becomes enormous for a host of reasons. Suddenly numbers were being printed in the papers. Attandances numbers and numbers of 'hopefully converted'. Notice the term again [i]hopefully[/i] converted. This is as far as men dared to go in their reporting of numbers; but as with anything, the boldness to intrude into those things which we know not, vainly puffed up by fleshly minds, eventually took the place of reason.

Before we move to our next point I must again state the importance of understanding the 'pressure' of reporting positive results in the press. This [i]pressure[/i] was no doubt a major cause of the erosion of the criteria degeneration for what it meant to be saved. The world was becoming 'quantity minded' and not [i]quality[/i] minded. The industrial revolution was weighing in heavily to the whole philosophy of life. More, more, more... faster, faster, faster....


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/8 8:57Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

YOU CAN "MEET" A STAR


As the "altar call'' became more common, the numbers that came forward increased. During the 1800's, the act of going forward to receive prayer was never considered the means of salvation. But through the changing of generations, the Biblical understanding of the sovereignty of God was slowly replaced by a modern "quick-fix" mentality. The "struggle of faith" and "praying through" was replaced by signing your name on a decision card.

Billy Sunday was a very popular professional baseball player before becoming a minister. His method of preaching broke the mold by any standard. At times he would even have a baseball bat on the platform and utilize it during the preaching. He started out in the beginning like D.L. Moody, with the emphasis on individual counseling in the after meeting. But by the end of his career this was fading or faded completely.

Billy Sunday asked folk to come forward to shake his hand as an indicator that they were turning to Christ. This marked a strong turning point in the way in which altar calls changed. Consider how he was a ball player and many wanted to 'shake his hand'. No doubt many were sincere also.

Early reports in the 1800's suggested that only 10% of the persons who went forward in an altar call were "hopefully saved." As the decades past, the percentage grew to as much as 30%. Then, much later, the number might be 50%. Until finally, by 1918, the newspapers reporting that everyone who "hit the sawdust trail" to shake Billy Sunday's hand were saved. The objectivity was all but gone and the emphasis on folk actually being born of the Spirit was being replaced with a simple decision.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/8 9:38Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

A QUICK LOOK BACK


Earlier we determined that it was Charles Finney's 'new measures' that fell into the hands of careless ministers that led us to where we are today with the de-emphasis on the new birth. However, Finney believed that when a person was truly converted they [u]should make a public profession of their faith.[/u] This was a departure from previous methods that simply took a ‘wait and see’ approach.

Finney believed that a person could be brought to salvation at once after they had gone through the process of conversion. While under great conviction the people were often invited to sit in the ‘anxious seat’ in the front of the meeting place. These people would be counseled and prayed for in the 'anxious meeting' that night or the next day. Sometimes he would go to their house.

During the meetings Finney would occasionally ask the people to stand up if they intended to serve Christ. Other times he called them forward once there was some certainty that they were saved. Again, being intentionally redundant here the term you frequently see used is, [u]‘hopefully converted.’[/u] Not knowing the hearts of men, it is impossible to fully know who is saved; but upon seeing fruits of repentance and verifiable and compelling evidence- Finney would consider them ‘hopefully converted.’


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/8 10:04Profile
RobertW
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St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

THE END OF 'HOPEFUL' CONVERSIONS

Since God doesn't change, only the definition of what it meant to be” saved" was slowly changing. By 1918, a newspaper reported, " CONVERTS RUSHED TO GRASP HANDS OF BILLY SUNDAY." According to the media, "Publicly acknowledging their belief in Jesus Christ as their savior, and expressing their repentance for sin, 425 men, women and children of all ages and types, surged down the sawdust trail to the platform at the tabernacle last night to grasp the hand of Billy Sunday and to be enrolled as professing Christians." 100% of the people who went forward were considered "saved" because of their singular act and supposed mindset. Lost in the frenzy was the Biblical teaching of the sovereignty of God and the born-again experience. The terminology "hopeful conversion" was lost by the end of Billy Sunday's career. Within a 39-year span, "hopeful conversions" were replaced with "X number of people got saved."


Notes:

The Wycliffe Bible Commentary Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press) Quote originally taken from G. Campbell Morgan “A First Century Message to Twentieth Century Christians”, pp. 40-42)

Adam Clarke commentary on Matthew 5:32.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=194

Persecution every Christian's Lot. (2 Tim. 3:12) (George Whitfield 1700’s)

“Ten Shekels and a Shirt” (Paris Reidhead sermon +-1965)

CHARLES G. FINNEY (Lectures on Revival Series)

PATRICK MACINTYRE, “The Scandal of Modern Evangelism” ©2005

ibid (scandal)

The Effective Invitation. R. Alan Streett c. 1984



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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/8 14:33Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Thank you for putting this together. I plan on printing it off and giving it to my pastor. I know he would enjoy this.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/3/9 8:45Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

REDISCOVERING EVANGELISM IN THE FIRST CENTURY (Section 5)

When we rewind the tape and return to the first century we find an entirely different method of ministry when it comes to 'invitations' to come to Christ. Even in the days of Wesley, Whitefield, and Finney we do not read of responses like we find in Acts. We read of folk falling from their seats or clinging to the posts of the building (Edwards), but how often have we heard that the folk cried out, "Men, what must we do to be saved?"

Peter on the Day of Pentecost concluded his sermon with these words, [i]'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ.'[/i] Coming from 40 days of seeking the Lord, it took but a simple message to reach the hearts of this people who were crying [i]crucify[/i] several weeks before. Notice their reaction to Peter's preaching, [i] 'Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said to Peter and to the rest of the apostles, 'Men and brethren, what shall we do?' [/i] (Acts 236-37). This response was the result of the working of the Holy Spirit through the word of God [u]alone[/u]. Notice their was no music playing or sad songs being sung. That day the apostles witnessed the genuine conversion of three thousand people and when the word of God says they were 'added' we can rest assured that the conversions were legit.


Paul gives us some insight into his preaching methods. Keep in mind that this is the means by which the Church at Corinth came into being. Here we read, [i] And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:[/i] (I Corinthians 2:4) Today we are highly impressed by the words of man's wisdom that seems to flow upon the pages of writings from the 18th and 19th Century. Their articulation fills us with awe and amazement! But was this the secret of their success? Certainly it was not Paul's; [i]my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom,...[/i].

If we are not careful we will again miss the fundamental element in effective evangelism. It is not enough to go back and look at the works of the great revivalists because we tend to focus on the marvel of their pen and preaching. But this is [u]not[/u] where the power is. Peter was not an exceptional orator. Paul was highly educated, but he did not lean upon that education as some may think. He leaned upon the Holy Spirit in all things.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/9 8:57Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

TURNING BACK THE CLOCK?
(SOME CONSIDERATIONS FROM C.S. LEWIS)

Should we consider the past or just continue on as if the problem will eventually correct itself? Pride comes front and center at this point. C.S. Lewis would no doubt argue that the clock needs to be ‘turned back’ anytime it is telling the wrong time. If we have taken the wrong road we need to stop, turn around and go back and find the ‘right’ road as soon as possible. The man who turns back soonest will be the most progressive man. If we have started a math problem and begin working it the wrong way we have to correct it before we can go farther; otherwise, the answer will be wrong. There is nothing ‘progressive’ about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake.


C.S. Lewis also commented in his lecture “Lessons from Wartime” that, "We need an intimate knowledge of the past not because the past has anything magic about it …but to remind us that the basic assumptions have been quite different in different periods and that much which seems certain to the uneducated is merely temporary fashion. A man who has lived in many places is not likely to be deceived by the local errors of his native village: the scholar has lived in many times and is therefore in some degree immune from the great cataract of nonsense that pours from the press and the microphone of his own age".

“Chronological Snobbery”

Chronological snobbery is “the presumption, fueled by the modern conception of progress, that all thinking, all art, and all science of an earlier time are inherently inferior, indeed childlike or even imbecilic, compared to that of the present. Under the rule of chronological snobbery, the West has convinced itself that "intellectually, humanity languished for countless generations in the most childish errors on all sorts of crucial subjects, until it was redeemed by some simple scientific dictum of the last century". It has become to believe that "anything more than a hundred years old is ancient" and "in the world of books, or opinions about books, the age at which senility sets in has now been reduced to about ten" (Barfield)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/9 14:02Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

OBEYING FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE

It is interesting to note that the early Church had a definite means by which folks were brought to Christ. Upon hearing and believing the word which was delivered unto them, they went through a three fold progression: repentance, faith, and water baptism. Notice how this plays out in Acts 8:

Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.


It is clear from this passage that Phillip preached that Christ was the Son of God and that he must be believed upon with "all of thy heart." This is the Eunuch's response to the revelation of who Christ is, [i]I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.[/i] It is further clear that Phillip preached the need to be baptized in water, even though the depth of what that baptism meant was likely not known. And characteristic of a heart that is turned right towards God is to want to ACT on the known will of God. Here we read:


See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

The Eunuch knew it was God's will and desired to fulfill 'all righteousness'; that is, all that he could at that point and time. This is evidence of change. It is God that worketh in you both to will and to do His good pleasure, truly, this is evidence of God working 'in' this Eunuch. He had heard that water baptism was God's will and he acted on that knowledge at first opportunity. No quarreling and haggling about whether he 'had to'; but a burning desire to do His Lord's bidding.



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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/13 13:33Profile





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