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Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Preaching to saints sounds like "preaching to the quire" but I know that isn't the case. We need the wole Word of God with balance in evrything, warnings, encouragements, teaching, repemands, exetra...



I think this is our greates fallacy in modern Christianity. We think that "preaching to saints is preaching to the choir" so to speak.

But if the goal of the gospel were merely to save the lost to take them to heaven, then that may be true. But that is not the goal of the gospel.

"God desires that all men be saved and come to a full knowlege of the truth."

The whole of the New Testament is not written to the lost or the heathen, it is written to belivers. There is not one single epistle written to anyone but believers.

God's goal is not just to save sinners but to produce mature, full grown sons of God, sanctified, transformed, and conformed to the image of the First Born Son of God.

God's goal is the body of Christ to be a living organism, and His expression on the earth. And to accomplsh this it is needed to "feed my lambs".

The goal of evangilism is to enlarge the body of Christ and the goal of ministry is to build up the body of Christ, to "grow up in all things into Christ who is the head" and to present each man complete in Christ, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Modern Evangelism is short sighted thinking that "being saved from hell" is the goal of the gospel. But that is not the goal by a long shot. The goal is in "bringing many sons to Glory".

Paul to the Galations did not say, "I am again in travail till you add more to your church." He said, "I am again in travial till Christ be formed in you.

It is one thing to be saved, regenerated, born of God and possessing the Life of God. It is quite another to grow in that Life to mature sons of God, living by Him, expressing Him and expressing Him as a full grown, functioning member of the body of Christ.

And to grow in this Life, we need the ministry of Christ, the daily communion with Him, the feeding on Him as the Bread of Heanven through His word, calling on Him hourly as our breath, and drinking of Him continually to quench our thirst. We need to learn to abide in Him moment by moment as branches in the Vine to dwew the Divine Sap from the vine in order to bear fruit. And it is only in this way that true remaining fruit is borm.

You can teach anyone to preach a gospel message, but only a person transformed by the Spirit into the image of Christ, filled with Christ and living by Christ can preach the gospel effectively and in power and produce genuine fruit which remains.

And to be such a person we need the constant care, the nurturing, the feeding of Christ, and the fellowship of the body of Christ to perfect us and to be transformed.

In fact the gifted ones, according to Ephesians 4 are given to the church for the perfecting of the Saints unto the work of the ministry. The ministry is to be carried out by the saints.

Those who He forknew, He did also predestinate to be conformed to the Image of His Son, that He might be the First Born among many brothers." (Romand 8:29).

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/25 12:52Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3703
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"a principle based on my "just a note..." not a method or rule"

This is the whole of John 3:16; John 3:15-19 That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

This is what we are baptized into; 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And, Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

Mar 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

And, Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

And finally; Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Where is He? He is baptized into as many that believe, and we have put on Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/25 19:55Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
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 Re:

Quote:
1. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ - no theological explanation needed.

2. The ressurrection of Jesus Christ - most important of all. The Gospel was never preached without this being brought in.

3. Exortation to hearers to repent of their sins..

4. Promise to all who believe on Jesus Christ that they will recieve remission of sins.



I would agree with that and have lately really tried to hit all 4, if possible, when open air preaching. I say if possible because not everyone sticks around for a whole message.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Philo brought this up in another thread.

Since this is true, how should that effect our preaching to sinners? Or should it? Do we just pray that the Spirit would open their eyes? or do we take a different approach?


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/27 9:54Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3703
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 Re:

I think preaching Christ and His death burial and resurrection and Assention and His coming back to this earth in the temple of His people which is the being born again part of scripture Jesus said must take place if anyone is to know the things of Heaven. This is the Gospel that will change lives of those that God has sent to all those that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

I don't see the preaching of repentance and baptism and law as bring anyone to Christ. I see this as a way for man to reach salvation by what he does. Salvation can only come by God the Father drawing those who are to be saved and convicted by the Holy Spirit. Preach Christ and Him crucified and this is all they need to know. Then all else will come as they grow in Christ. Then they will know what repentance, baptism are by the Holy Spirit is teaching them about the Jesus that has been born again in them. The must know that they have all of the tools they will ever need to work out their salvation with fear and trembling, that is great awe at what has and is happening to them by the Christ that is in them, being taught by the Holy Spirit Himself who this Christ is and they have become son's of God by because of The Son of God, Jesus Christ who is not their life and glory. They can do nothing more than to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and all these things will be added unto them. So what is the first thing for the unsaved and the misguided believer? Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

If Jesus by direct revelation to Paul teaches only Christ and Him Crucified, it should be good for all preaching to all people. Paul always taught Christ and Him Crucified first and if they believed, then their repentance and baptism was sure in Christ not in the works of repentance and baptism. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord, Not in works that anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Finally, what will do the Job? Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In Christ by the Holy Spirit.

IN Christ: Phillip



Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


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Phillip

 2006/2/27 13:58Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Quote:
I don't see the preaching of repentance and baptism and law as bring anyone to Christ. I see this as a way for man to reach salvation by what he does.



Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar 1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

Mar 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

Mar 1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.

Do you think I am reading too much into it if I say that Jesus preached repentance and it wasn't long after that he had disciples?

Quote:
Preach Christ and Him crucified and this is all they need to know.



What do you mean by this? You don't think we should just say, "Jesus died for your sins?" Do you?

I guess I would need to know what you mean by "preaching Christ." I would say if you preach Christ you must preach all aspects of His character. His hate for sin, holiness, righteousness, love, and grace. And if you do that you inevitably will preach repentance and remission of sin.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/3/1 9:45Profile
madmatg
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Joined: 2004/5/25
Posts: 96
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 Re:

i think it might be benificial(cause it took me a while to find these and i think they are the model given; as most here have already stated) to have some examples so i'm gonna post some of the messages that were preached:
Mark 1:14-18
Acts 2:14-41
Acts 3:11-26
Acts 4:33?


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matt

 2006/3/1 17:30Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3703
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 Re:

I think preaching Christ and His death burial and resurrection and Assention and His coming back to this earth in the temple of His people which is the being born again part of scripture Jesus said must take place if anyone is to know the things of Heaven. This is the Gospel that will change lives of those that God has sent to all those that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Your question Preacher: "Do you think I am reading too much into it if I say that Jesus preached repentance and it wasn't long after that he had disciples?

"What do you mean by this? You don't think we should just say, "Jesus died for your sins?" Do you?

Does what I wrote before your question sound like we should preach anything except Christ and Him Crucified. I think Paul is very clear in his preaching when it comes to Christ and The Hope of Glory we receive when we are born again. I am what I am by the I Am that is in me. I am what I am not by what I do but by who I am. We stand perfect before God the Father and nothing we do will change our standing before God, all sinners and especially the new born Christian need to know this. If I had been told when I was saved and believed on the Lord Jesus as my Savior, that I am now perfect before God the Father by the birthing of Christ Jesus in me the Hope of Glory, and I cannot get any more of Him than I already have. I believe this would have given me the greatest incentive of all to bring my mind into knowing Him more than any works I could have done. If I ask the Father for Bread, He won't give me a stone. If I trust the Holy Spirit to teach me all thing in bring my mind to the Mind of Christ, I believe He will do it. If This Gospel of Paul would have been preached to me when I first became a Christian, it would have saved a lot of confusion and frustration and me trying to show the world I was a Christ Person by what I did instead of who I was in Christ. What I do will never make me a better Christian, but knowing who I am will and who it is that is in me and allowing His Mind to come forth from me then my works will show my Faith. 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Philippians 3:14-21 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

I don't think that this is leaving anything out that pertains to life and Godliness in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This is not what most of the Churches are preaching. They are preaching a doctrine of Works Righteousness and our faith and repentance and baptism, (I am not abdicating no repentance or baptism, but knowing by the Mind of Christ what we should repent from and baptized into.)being what saves us.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is the Word of God and I think it is very clear how we should preach to everyone, sinner or saved.

Christ In You The Hope of Glory: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/3/1 20:32Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Mark 1:14-18 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.

Very good scripture. Jesus was the Kingdom come on this earth, It is Jesus of Nazareth in the flesh. To them He called, they will listen. These are those that the Father had given Him that He said none were lost but the son of perdition, and that only to fulfill the scripture. They followed Him. It happens the same way today The Father gives us to Him and He calls and we Hear His Voice, we are His Sheep. He will not loose any of us either unless it is to fulfill scripture. We know Him no longer as a man but as God in us. 2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

He is not Jesus of Nazareth anymore but the glorified Christ that is come in mortal flesh.

He was Jesus of Nazareth but no longer is He in flesh except His Temple, us. also housing the Holy Spirit and abiding with the Father also.

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/3/1 21:22Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
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 Re: Preaching to Sinners vs Saints

Preach,
I do not have the time to read this entire thread but will give my two cents worth.

When I counseled clients at CPC, I did not know often how I would talk to her, but instead I asked her some questions and waited in my spirit for the LORD to lead me. Brother, I think this is the way YOU need to preach! You wait on the Spirit! I have had clients who had problems we were not even trained to deal with, but the Holy Spirit did not mind! He just told me what to say and I did! Me thinks this principle applies here with you! Easy? you bet! But it requires a close walk with the Savior. I like to say I often walked on water in dealing with issues at CPC.

And BTW, I did not try to remember what I told the client because I knew the HS would do a repeat performance! and he did! PTL!!!

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/3/1 23:14Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3703
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 Re:

ginnyrose:

How true in counseling, only the Holy Spirit can reveal what is needed for those seeking truth and help. Amen

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/3/2 0:28Profile





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