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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 just a wild thought

Quote:
But whether people like it or not, there are certain sins that God does deem worse than others. Particularly sexual sins.


Where does it say that?

Jesus did preach about looking at a woman lustfully as the same as (mmmm just as bad as homosexuality???)

He also said you should cut off anything that tempts you to sin??? mmmm
That's the answer! Shouldn't we at least give the solution at the same time as pointing out the problem.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/2/13 13:48Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: just a wild thought

I presume that it's okay to challenge our own words. Regarding the notion that some sins are worse than others, I actually believe that to be true. Frankly, if I had a choice between having a murderer or a homosexual as a guest for dinner, guess who I would chose? There are some people in society who act aggressively against it. There is a reason we lock these people away.

But there are also a lot of people who act out their anger and shame against themselves - self-abuse. Same root sin, but different behavior. Unfortunately society (and church) is bad at judging people's sin, and tend to only look at the manifested behaviors. Thus the squeeky-clean hypocrite in church is praised while the drunk in the ditch is shunned. Yet they all have chosen their own path while rejecting Christ's redemption. One can fake it better than the other - perhaps because one has more ability to do so.

The topic of homosexuality is a never-ending mantra here, I suspect because people think it threatens the church. (an illusion)

I think a lot of people just assume that homosexuals get up one morning and say, "Mmm I'm going to make a choice that will cause me to be shuned, shamed, rejected by my friends, ridiculed, hated... "

Now, I ask, why would anyone do that? Perhaps seeking the answers to that will help us understand them, and then be better equipped to minister into their lives. If we fail, then the Christian Community will only continue to drive them away to form their own solidatity, pride marches, etc etc.

A while ago I put up a thread called, "How to love a homosexual" It was a miserable flop. It started off with replies about all the evils of it. People used the thread to vent their anger. (We've come a long way since then)
Maybe someday I will try again. Meantime:

Why not try to UNDERSTAND them before we "speak against their sin"? As I did in former threads, I here insert the link to this site: [url=http://www.exodus.to/testimonials_start.shtml]Exodus: Testimonials[/url]

It would be great if we could discuss these testimonials about what God has done in their lives.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/2/13 14:41Profile









 Re:

Diane...

You asked where the Bible makes distinctions between sins... not every sin is called an "abomination". The Bible makes it clear which sins are an abomination. Thats not to say that there are sins that are not offensive to God, but there are certain sins that if we persist in them God will turn us over to it.

Quote:
The topic of homosexuality is a never-ending mantra here, I suspect because it is something that frightens the church.



It doesnt frighten me, and I dont know anyone who it does frighten. I preach against homosexuality as much as I preach agaisnt any other sin.

Quote:
If we don't do that, then the Christian Community will only continue to drive them away to form their own solidatity, pride marches, etc etc.



They are not asking for our love... they are asking for our acceptance of their behavior. Their pride marches etc are protests agaisnt God and His Word... and Law. They really arent against Christians even tho it seems that way. This is a spiritual battle. They are really rebelling agaisnt the One who we represent.

Quote:
Why not try to UNDERSTAND them before we "speak against their sin"?



Again, this discussion isnt about homosexual behavior. Everyone agrees its a sin. This discussion is about the church's acceptance of practicing [b]unrepentant[/b] homosexuals in ministry... whether directly or indirectly.

Homosexuals should be made welcome when visiting a church. They should also leave convicted. We preach the truth in love, and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting. Just as with anyone else. We cant run them off and expect them to get saved... but neither can we join with them in ministry.

Quote:
They think it threatenes the church and the family. (an illusion)



It's no illusion... it most certainly [b]does[/b] threaten the church and the family.

Homosexuals are not created that way.

Quote:
Why not try to UNDERSTAND them



Thats what some people say about terrorist. There is no comparing homosexuals to Islamic terrorists... but there is nothing to understand. I dont care what conditions made the terrorist a terrorist, there is no excuse for his actions.

Krispy

 2006/2/13 14:58
mblawrence
Member



Joined: 2006/2/10
Posts: 3


 Re:

I am sorry that I have been unable to clarify my comments up to this point. I was unavailable for a few days. Healingwaters, you are close to understanding where I am coming from. I believe in holiness, but I understand that holiness cannot be attained through our strength, but only through Christ Jesus. We must rely on His sacrifice for our righteousness and nothing else. Our good works are as filthy rags in the sight of the Lord. Therefore we must take the position that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, and have compassion on people who are bound by sin (even those who have come to the knowledge of Christ).
Legalism is a form of witchcraft that destroys peoples lives and creates a spirit of fear. (I speak from firsthand experience) That is the problem with the majority of the Body of Christ today. Many seem to be afraid to move in their destiny due to the fear that has been planted in their hearts by false teachers. In conclusion, I believe that if the Church would reach out to homosexuals in a loving manner then I believe that they would be responsive to the Gospel and perhaps change their lifestyle. It truly is the love of God that brings mens hearts to repentance.

 2006/2/16 19:04Profile
mblawrence
Member



Joined: 2006/2/10
Posts: 3


 Re:

Sounds like someone has received true revelation. Keep on digging deeper.

 2006/2/16 19:08Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


{Quote} Healingwaters

John preached Repentance to Israel!
Jesus preached the Good News to Israel!
Apostles and others preached Christ and the gospel of reconcilation to Israel and to the uttermost parts of the earth!

Now can someone give me a scripture in the New Testement where anyone preached against sin to the world?
.................................................


.Paul preached repentance.

Act 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have showed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Peter preached repentance.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


Jesus preached repentance.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


We are to preach repentance too.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/2/16 21:47Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:



{Quote} Krispy

But whether people like it or not, there are certain sins that God does deem worse than others. Particularly sexual sins.

{Quote} Krispy

You asked where the Bible makes distinctions between sins... not every sin is called an "abomination". The Bible makes it clear which sins are an abomination.
.................................................

The following are some other abominations other than sexual sins:

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Pro 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Pro 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Pro 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/2/16 21:50Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: repentance

Quote:
The Bible makes it clear which sins are an abomination.


What difference should this make in the way we deal with sinnners? What difference did it make to Jesus?

Quote:
We are to preach repentance too.


I think most assume that repentance means: stop a certain behavior, but Jesus and the Apostles meant far more than that: a radical change of direction - a surrendering/resignation of self-rule, and becoming a bondservant of Christ.


I ask, how can sinnners turn to Christ if they have never met him (ie through believers) and in their experiences they see Christians as harsh, forceful, and rejecting. Or if they believe that God can't possibly love them, they are so flawed.

The whole issue of homosexuality keeps on boiling down to this: our own relationship with God - our own repentance. You can deliver the goods only if you have them. You can preach the GOOD NEWS best if it (or rather Christ) is a reality in your life.

Having said that, I am thankful that the Holy Spirit and the power of God's mercy works in spite of our human failings, and draws sinners to himself. So great is his love!!!!!!!!!
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/2/17 5:55Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3194
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Having said that, I am thankful that the Holy Spirit and the power of God's mercy works in spite of our human failings, and draws sinners to himself. So great is his love!!!!!!!!!
Diane




Thank God for that or I would still be lost. :-?


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2006/2/17 9:12Profile









 Re:

Brother GaryE

Thank you for bringing those scriptures to light.

What these scriptures fail to do is that it fails to mention that Paul preached against SINS in particular.

When Jesus was talking to the Samartian woman in thier dialogue Jesus mentioned to her that she had many husbands. His message to her was concerning Living Water, and notice how He didn't condemn her for her sins when He told her that she had several husbands. We do that with great pomp in exposing peoples lives, we love to tell other peoples sins all over the church. Jesus left the convicting to the power of the holy Spirit.

Peter on the day of Pentecost did the same thing, he left the convicting up to the Holy Spirit, and people responded by turning away from that perverted and untoward generation. Thats what repentance is, a turning away.

When Stephen was preaching to the Sanhedrin, they too were convicted by the holy Ghost but they like Paul before his conversion kicked against the pricks.

When they brought the woman caught in adultery, Jesus didn't say anything to her in regards to her sin. He didn't say, "Your a whore, you need to repent, your sin is an abomination." NOOOOOOOOO, He simply told her, "go and sin no more".

Listen to those words, "go and sin no more". Here is a man who just loved me, he didn't condemn me, he didn't preach to me to get right with God, He simply loved me. I can guarantee you that when that woman left him, she stopped doing what she was doing. I know I've been there, I had someone just love me and I wanted to follow him wherever, because the love of God flowed thru him. If Jesus condemned her, she would've have continued on in that sin, thats what the law does it couldn't be kept. Even though David hid the word in his heart so he wouldn't sin against God, yet he found himself in an adulterous affair, coupled with murder and deceipt. That is why church members don't leave their sin, because the law in the church which is supposed to be under our feet is putting pressure on the head of believers to conform to the law. It's absolutely frightening. It can be any law, it doesn't have to be the Ten Commandments, but anything that restricts the Holy Spirits working.

When the law is ruling and not grace and truth, sin and death is rampant in the church.

 2006/2/17 12:38





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