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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Must we sin?

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pottershands
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Joined: 2006/1/1
Posts: 36
North Carolina, USA

 Re:

Lazarus wrote:

Quote:
Yes a Christian can sin BIG, and a Christian can sin SMALL, but a Christian doesn't have to sin at all.


Amen, bro. Jesse. I believe this , too.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
[Mat 5:48 KJVR]"

The question many have is, "does God expect us to attain perfection, or just strive for it?". Since this verse comes at the end of the sermon on the mount, it seems it is intended to point out our utter dependance on God by showing us just how far we fall short of His perfect standard. What do you think?

Melissa


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Melissa

 2006/1/31 17:06Profile
TaKa
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Joined: 2003/4/17
Posts: 124
Louisiana

 Re: tinluke

Yes, I agree that we have to be constantly aware of the inward battle between the spirit man and the flesh. But again, the Bible says that if we walk in the Sprit, we WILL NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Have you ever read Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray? I think John Wesley and/or John Knox also wrote on the subject of entire sanctification.

The Bible says that if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. Does "all" mean "all", or does it mean something else? And if God is not capable of cleansing us from all unrighteousness, is He really God?

Yes, I agree with Lazarus when he says that a Christian certainly CAN sin, but certainly does not HAVE to sin. That's the good news of salvation! We don't have to sin anymore.

Did Jesus tell the woman at the well "Go and sin less" or "Go and sin no more"? He wouldn't have said "Go and sin no more" if it weren't possible for her to do so.






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Troy

 2006/1/31 17:42Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
Or what about spiritual pride, fear, doubt, unbeliefe??? These are "hidden" sins of the heart that are the root of many "big" sins.
What about anger?? What about hating someone who is abusing you??? Can any of us say "forgive him father for he knows not know what he does." No, we can not do it, but the spirit of Christ with in us can. And sometimes we need to cry out over and over again. Lord help me love the person who hurts me!! Yes, hating even the person who is hurting you is still HATE and therefore still sin. So, this is the struggle that I am referring to.

And I feel the the Holy spirit has said this to me about those who are struggling with this.

THE OLD MAN IS DEAD... YOU'RE NOT GOING BACK THERE. YES, SIN STILL LIVES WITH US, BUT YOU ARE CHANGING FROM IMAGE TO IMAGE AND GLORY TO GLORY. REST IN HIS LOVE FOR YOU.


This is a wonderful post and I really think people need to read it again and meditate on it. I am not against holiness but when you say the word holiness you don't think of PERFECTIONISM or SINLESSNESS. I am striving to be as "holy as a sinner can be made".


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/1/31 17:55Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Admittedly, in places Wesley's teaching on Christian perfection is difficult to sort out. He makes an assertion, qualifies it, amplifies it, alters it, and then picks up a fresh approach to the same topic. And in fact nuances in his doctrine have given rise to various schisms within Methodism. Nevertheless, the lineaments oil his teaching are clear:

-Christian perfection is not sinlessness in the sense of faultlessness;
-it is not a rising above human finitude;
-the sanctified never possess sanctification in such a way as to be independent of Jesus Christ, and they always stand in need of forgiveness; they do continue to grow in grace; they are on the road, as Wesley said one hundred times, to perfection in love.

from:
http://www.victorshepherd.on.ca/Wesley/newpage25.htm


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/1/31 18:08Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
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 Re:

Text Sermons on Christian Perfection:

[u]John Wesley[/u]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1683]Christian Perfection[/url]

[u]Charles Finney[/u]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=572]Christian Perfection (1)[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=573]Christian Perfection (2)[/url]


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Josh Parsley

 2006/1/31 19:01Profile
JFEdgar
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Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
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 Re: Must we sin?


Hello everyone,
An important question to ask yourself is, 'do I have to sin right now?' Whenever you are tempted do you have to sin? The Scriptures clearly teach that you do not.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

This scripture is clear as day. It very clearly teaches that there is ALWAYS a way out (through Jesus) when we are tempted. This causes the blame to be totally upon us when we fall. It was not because the devil caused us, it was not because the world caused us, it was not that we could not help it, because God made a way out. Therefore, every time we sin, we are totally to blame. And when we have victory, God deserves all the credit (for He made the way out).

The doctrine of 'Christian imperfection' is not only totally unbiblical, but is also entirely wicked because it gives believers an excuse to continue in sin.

Do I claim to be sinless? No. Do I claim that the verses here are true, and that I can be sinless because of Jesus' work on the Cross and the Life He now imparts to me? Ofcourse, and throughout my entire New Testament it testifies to that fact.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


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Joe E

 2006/1/31 19:09Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Do I claim to be sinless? No. Do I claim that the verses here are true, and that I can be sinless because of Jesus' work on the Cross and the Life He now imparts to me? Ofcourse, and throughout my entire New Testament it testifies to that fact.


But what is sin? is it just adultery and other outward sins (even though even these orginate from the heart)? I want to know what people think about sins of the mind and even of WHO WE ARE! like everyday actions.. pride, selfishness, envy, backbiting.. sin!


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/1/31 19:13Profile









 Re:

"sin is trangession of the Law" 1John 3:4

I don't understand this teaching that you can get the BIG sins out of your life, but not the SMALL sins. What is BIG and what is SMALL?

Is pride SMALL? What if you have a lot of a small sin in your life? Suppose someone has A LOT of pride. Is it then a small sin that someone could get out of their life?


"Would you be free from your burden of sin? There is power in the blood. Power in the blood. Would you be free from your passion and pride? There is power in the blood of the Lamb."

"And in that fountain sinners plunge and lose ALL of their guilty stains."

 2006/1/31 19:19
Quickend
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Joined: 2006/1/20
Posts: 42


 Re: must we sin

If my flesh should cause me to sin, can I not through Christ's spirit crucify it?

If I be tempted, can I not escape?

If my thoughts be sinful can I not bring them into captivity to the will of God?

Am I not a new man who has died and been reborn?

Have not old things past away?

I cannot claim a sinnles life, but it seems to me that I have been given every spirtual tool to enable me to live without sin, no matter how often I fall, should this not be my earnest goal? is this not the goal set forth by our lord (sin no more) and if so, how can I in good conscience teach others that it cannot be done.


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Robert.High

 2006/1/31 19:35Profile
JFEdgar
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Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re: Must we sin?

I would also like to add, that when you sin it is entirely because you chose to. This is what 1 Corinth 10:13 and many others say. God HAS free'd you, He already Has given you a way out, He already has killed your Old Man, whether you believe it or not. This means that right now you have the total ability to walk in the New Man, and deny the Old Man (for he is dead), and if you do not it is because you choose not to. Do not blame God for your sin, for He has freed you from it, and told you so in His Word.

I do not call this Christian Perfection, I call this christian accountability. It is time we began to be accountable for our actions before God. Let us stop blaming our sin on the "flesh", and realize that I AM THE FLESH AND I CHOOSE TO WALK IN IT. We are clearly commanded to walk in the Spirit, and not the flesh. This is because we have been freed entirely from it. This is what Romans 6-8 say! Yes Paul makes it clear what happens in the flesh in Romans 7, yet he shows what happens in the Spirit in Romans 8. Galatians 5 says "walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh". Do you believe God when He says this? He doesnt say 'you shall fulfill less of the lusts of the flesh'.

Do you commit fornication in church? Do you look at pornography in the pews? Do you lust after women when you know other brothers are watching? Are you as ready to show anger and annoyance toward others while at church as you are at work? Are you as likely to 'fib' when others might find out? You who do these things while you are alone, you hypocrits! You will not do them when others are watching, but when only God is watching, you indulge in these things and blame it on your 'sin nature'. You are able to abstain from sin before the eyes of others, yet when you are before only God, you suddenly have a 'sin nature' or a 'flesh' which prevents you from being able to be holy. This is hypocrisy.

Walk in humility towards God and man, for He is the one who has freed you. But walk in Holiness, for He has enabled you to. On the day of judgement, blaming your sin nature or your flesh will not do.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:21 [b] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.[/b]
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and [b]bringing me into captivity to the [u]law of sin[/u] which is in my members[/b].
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through [b]Jesus Christ our Lord[/b]. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me [b]free from the law of sin[/b] and death.
Romans 8:2 For the [b]law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me [u]free from the law of sin[/u] and death[/b].

Romans 8:4-9 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who [b]walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit[/b]. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [b]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: [u]for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be[/u]. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. [u]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit[/u], if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his[/b].


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Joe E

 2006/1/31 19:39Profile





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