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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Must we sin?

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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
These members, or deeds of the body, or acts of sin, are called "[b]your[/b]": for as the old man is ours, the vitiosity of nature is what we bring into the world with us, and is rooted and incorporated into us; so the actions that flow from it, and are done by it, are not to be ascribed to God, nor even to Satan, but they are [b]our own[/b] actions, and which are performed by the members of our mortal body, or [b]by the faculties of our souls[/b]:



Brings to mind a wise word heard before;

"There is just 'you'."


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/5 13:49Profile









 Re:

Mike,

Could I ask for clarification of the origin of the quotes in your last post, and whether these were in any measure a response to my last post?

 2006/2/5 13:53
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Could I ask for clarification of the origin of the quotes in your last post, and whether these were in any measure a response to my last post?



The orgin? It was from the the same commentary from John Gill earlier, in the first section. And yes, in response to your last post.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/5 18:43Profile









 Re: Must we sin?


Mike,

I'm not disputing the need for individual responsibility for sin. I hope you don't think I am. The fact is, Jesus Christ took responsibility for paying the price for each individual's sin. That's the gospel. We are not supposed to continue languishing under the effects of past sins, but, we do, because they have made their mark on our souls. That's why the blood is required to be constantly cleansing our souls, as we walk in the light. (1 John 1:7)

What I'm disputing is this: that to [i]cease from sin[/i], we must 'lay down' our 'soul's life' - and I'm disputing it, because it doesn't make any sense. God [i][b]restores[/i][/b] our soul. He is offering us the chance to [u]preserve[/u] our soul, by accepting the death of our old man through baptism into the death of Christ. (Rom 6:6)

What we lay down/mortify/put to death are the 'sins of the flesh' which are [i]contrary[/i] to the life of the Spirit. We still have to live in our bodies, but not everything which our bodies do, is sinful.

The outworking of the mortification of 'the [i]sins[/i] of [u]the flesh[/u]', is that our soul is [i][b]no longer[/i][/b] in jeopardy of hell; the life of the Spirit [i]quickens[/i] (brings to life) the flesh (Rom 8:11) and as we [u]stop sinning[/u] (as listed), we (our souls) are being [i][b]healed[/b][/i] of the harmful effects of such previous sins.

I hope you are not suggesting that it is impossible to stop sinning the sins listed in the verse you quote?

 2006/2/5 19:22









 Re:


Dorcas and Mike,
I think were all three pretty much saying the same thing.We die to our sins which is our old man and we recieve a new man which is created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship,created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world but BE YE TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable, and perfect wil of God.

The word "transformed" in the Greek is METAMORPHOO which means transformed or transfigured by a supernatural change, as in Mt. 17:2; Mk. 9:2; Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor 3:18.

As we die to our sins we are at the same time dying to our old man and our minds are BEING (active verb) transformed.





 2006/2/5 20:20
Quickend
Member



Joined: 2006/1/20
Posts: 42


 Re:

Dorcas,
Thank you for your patience and understanding in regards to the PM that I sent both you and Rebecca5. Your response was so thoughtful, it realy humbled me and adressed all of my concerns.

In regards to your question about posting the answer is an emphatic no!
Please continue to post in this fourm.
I do not disagree with your points at all.

Quote:Dorcas,
"Isn't that your point? You want them to battle with the possibility that they don't really have an excuse to sin, and to find that scripture supports your point....? Yes?"

YES...Exactly
Thanks agin for such a direct response. My first thought was to post the entire PM that you sent me. It expressed my thoughts so completly.
Quickend.


_________________
Robert.High

 2006/2/5 20:54Profile
RandyJ
Member



Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re: Must we sin?

Hello there,
I have briefly looked over the previous discussion and am constrained to give my opinion. I not only do not think that it is impossible to not sin but I think that it is perfectly absurd to say that it is impossible to stop sinning. I do recognize, as was said in this discussion, that people have differing definitions for the term 'sin'. The Bible also uses different definitions for the term 'sin'. When speaking of sin I prefer to use the same definition that John Wesley used that sin is "a willful transgression of the law". The Bible supports this definition in many verses such as the following:
" Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."Rom 4:15
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."1st John 3:4-9

It is absurd to suggest that willful sin is unavoidable for it flatly contradicts the very definition of sin. Sin, in my preferred definition, cannot but be seen by God as willful. God does not look at such sin and say "Oh my poor creature,thou art so subjected to ill influences that thou art necessitated to live a sinful life of rebellion against me but I am merciful." Nay I answer, God is not such towards sin.
Someone has put forth the question whether anyone would be able to say that they are living free from sin. I would suggest that doctrine should not be predicated of personal experience but rather fromreason and the word of God. I humbly confess that I have probably sinned more than anyone on this website however I think that would qualify me to speak on the nature of sin persevered in. I know and am conscious of the fact that I am guilty of all my sin. Guilt for sin implies the ability to not have sinned. What!? Guilty for sin that was unavoidable! Nonsense!
Let me suggest that no one on this website will ever attain freedom from sin while they entertain such notions of sin. I do also confess that I have had a degree of victory in my life. I boast in nothing but the cross of Jesus Christ by which the world is crucified unto me. I have sinned recently and am nothing but ashamed for it but I know that as long as I deal with sin as not normal then God will grant me victory again.
If the will is free then willful transgression of the law is so avoidable that it merits the most heavy punishments such as the scriptures present to the sinner. On no other ground could God justly damn millions to hell than that sin was both perceptibly wrong and perfectly avoidable.
I do most zealously encourage anyone who is reading this now to look to God when they are tempted for He is able to deliver you. When you are tempted say a prayer and pick up your Bible and read a passage or more and pray, pray, pray until God bestows upon you the Holy Spirit in a tabgable way that assures you of His approbation and then move on in victory. We are not to buckle under the pressures of this world, the flesh and the devil but are to be more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
Randy
PS I do not usually have time to be on here so I probably will not be able to receive a reply. I apologize for this. If you would like to reply then you could do so via pm and I will receive it in due time.


_________________
Randy Steinke

 2006/2/5 22:30Profile









 Re:


I can't say for sure but it's possible when God created the butterfly He had us in mind.Im sure He did!

When I was studying that word "transformed", and looked it up in the Greek as meaning; "metamorphoo", the first thing that comes to mind is the butterfly and that's a good example as to what takes place in the life of a christian.

The butterfly as we all know is first a catapillar and is slowly changed into a butterfly.ITS STILL THE SAME INSECT THOUGH.The old insect is changed or transformed.The old man slowly leaves as the new man takes over.I guess the DNA somehow suddenly changes,I don't know I'm not a scientist.

Out with the old and in with the new.God doesn't take away anything without putting something back.Doesn't that make sense?




 2006/2/5 22:58
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Well said Randy!


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/5 23:20Profile









 Re:



Since the earth declares the glory of God here's what I found on the metamorphasis of a butterfly.Just thought it would be interesting to read to some and maybe you will glean something totally different from it.God talks about the animals and nature all throughout the bible.Interesting if nothing else.



METAMORPHASIS

From the time a catapillar hatches it eats so much that it's skin can't keep up.It sheds it's skin several times as it grows bigger and bigger.Eventually it forms a chrysalis and one day splits open and a butterfly emerges.Insects with a complete metamorphasis pass through a larval stage and than enter an INACTIVE STATE known as a pupa (or chrysalis), finally emerging as the adult form.Many observations have indicated that CELL DEATH plays a considerable role during physiological processes of multicellular organisms,particularly dury embyogenisis and metamorphasis.


 2006/2/5 23:49





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