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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

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Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
In this Scripture is this cleansing David prays for, according to the law of Moses or the law of faith in Christ?



It is based in the Levitical system which God instituted. It is based in the Old Testament system. It is based on the comming redemption which would be accomplished by Christ in the future.

Hallaluah God has always provided for His people in Christ. And in the end, the New Jeruselem is not just made up of New Testament believers but the 12 tribes of Isreal are also named.

IN the end the Old Testament Saints will be joint heirs of God with the New Testament beievers through Christ.

But in Time, they did not enjoy the full realization of this which we enjoy. The Spirit of Jehovah worked upon them, communed with them, and filled them and did many things through them. They enjoyed genuine intimate fellowship with God.

But they did not posses the organic union with Christ that we enjoy today. IN the comming age they will and even now those in Abraham's bossom I am sure enjoy Intimate fellowship with Christ in the same way we do. But in that day they did not. They were not organically united with Christ as the incarnated, crucified, resurrected God/Man. That was reserved for the Church which is the body of Christ which had no existance before Christ came, was crucified and resurrected.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/15 16:18Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother GB wrote:

Quote:
It is based in the Levitical system which God instituted. It is based in the Old Testament system.



The law of Moses required man to sacrifice the blood of bulls. This is not David's prayer. David asks God to cleanse him. Apostle John teaches:

1 John 1:7-9

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The prayer of David is in accordance with John's teaching and not the Law of Moses. Would you agree that this is available to all who live by faith?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/15 17:27Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
The prayer of David is in accordance with John's teaching and not the Law of Moses. Would you agree that this is available to all who live by faith?



I do not agree that there is no differnce between the Old Testament and the New Testament. I do not agree that there is nothing new in the New Testament. It is the New Testament because it is New. If it were not it would not be the "New testament".

I do not agree that the Old testament Saints enjoyed the same thing we enjoy today. Christ had not come in the flesh, Christ had not lived a human Life. Christ had not died on the cross. Christ had not resurrected from the dead.

The Spirit was not the Spirit of the glorified, crucified, resurrected Christ. The Spirit was not yet, because Christ was not yet glorified.

Today we as the Church, the body of Christ enjoy The indwelling Spirit as the dwelling place of God, We are His body, His enlargement, We are the reality of the tabernacle, the Reality of the Temple which was the dwelling place of God int he Old Testament. Today we as the church, the body of Christ are the reality of these things which were pictures and shadows in the Old Testament.

I do not agree with you. Sorry.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/15 18:42Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Jeremiah 23:4-5 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

We the Body of Christ the Church and are the spiritual Israel and we have already been save by the Cross, Israel has not, but will on this physical earth with Christ the Branch physically ruling from David's Throne over them and Judah and Israel and they shall fear no more.

Who is this Branch you ask? It is Christ Himself. Look at Who He is. The King. Where is He ruling? In the earth. Where is our King ruling? At the right Hand of God and on the Throne of our Hearts by His Spirit given us in the new birthing of Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

This is certainly not the King of the millennial reign of of the righteous Branch unto David's Throne in the New Jerusalem on this earth and He will reign and prosper and execute judgment on this earth.

This is what the Righteous Branch will accomplish on this earth for 1000 years and we will be God's birthed legitimate children doing His bidding from the Throne by Jesus Christ who is already our King.

Then Israel will be saved. Jeremiah 23:6-8 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

We the Church, the Body of Christ have not been driven anywhere, for we are seated with Christ in Heavenly Places.

Jeremiah is speaking of Israel and Judah, not the Body of Christ the Church.

We can fight it all we want and try to put Israel and the Body of Christ the Church together, but Gods Word will always keep them separate until the end of the millennium is over then Christ will put all things in His Father's Hands. 1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/15 21:51Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother GB wrote:

Quote:
I do not agree that there is no differnce between the Old Testament and the New Testament. I do not agree that there is nothing new in the New Testament. It is the New Testament because it is New. If it were not it would not be the "New testament".



When speaking of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers, Paul teaches about two covenants only. Not one, not three, but two. The covenant made on mount Sinai and the covenant made with Abraham. Thoughout Pauls writings he always teaches about the law of Moses versus the covenant made with Abraham.

Have you ever condsidered this aspect of his teaching?

Why didn't he teach from the day of Pentecost on?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/16 15:35Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted from Jeremiah 23

Quote:
that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch,




There is a spiritual precept that both Paul and Jesus teach of. This precept is defined adequately by these Scriptures.

John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Also

Rom. 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

These two sections of Scripture mean the same thing in spiritual terms.

Likewise in Jeremiah, the "Branch" refers to a generation of those who have become one with Christ and the Father. They have been conformed into the image of His Son.

These Branches have existed as the remnant and are part of the Holy. We gentiles, a wild branch have been grafted in amonsgt the Holy branches.

Read about Paul's teaching in Romans 11. Holy Branches existed before the time of the gentiles.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/16 15:42Profile









 Re:This is for Jend ~

[b]1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to naught:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. [/b]


I love Paul. What did he Preach ? ;-)

 2006/2/16 21:23
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

"Have you ever condsidered this aspect of his teaching?

Why didn't he teach from the day of Pentecost on?"

Have you ever consider that Paul's Gospel is completely different from the Gospel of Moses or the Gospel of Abraham or even the Gospel of Christ?

What does Paul say his Gospel is? Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Were any sealed before the Holy Spirit came that Jesus had promised and that the Father sent, to seal us into Christ, and the Holy Spirit being in us forever who had previously been with us and would come and go upon old testament saints and even Jesus Christ Himself to show us that The Holy Spirit was like a dove and would not force Himself upon anyone, but being baptized into the Holy Spirit we would have This Comforter Teacher leading us into Christ and His Life forever.

That we might be in Christ and Christ in us, which no other people had ever had by their belief of what God Said About His Son. Oh sure the Old Testament new about the Messiah but they did not know He was a Son and would be born again in the believer. Which even the elite in the Sanhedrin did not know as with even head masters rulers, when Jesus was with them. Jhn 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jhn 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Even Nicodemus did not understand, and I don't believe that he could unless it was revealed by the Holy Spirit unto him, this business of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

On Top of that could Nicodemus have been born again while Jesus was yet with him? No, Jesus would have to be crucified, die, resurrect, appear, and ascend and come back in the Spirit born again in the ones that believed. Realized at Pentecost by the Holy Spirit coming upon them as tongues of Fire and then would be baptized in them and we would be sealed by Him in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-12 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified ((in his saints,)) and to be admired ((in all them)) that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) (Paul's Gospel) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our ((Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you,)) ((and ye in him,)) according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. The dispensation of Grace in Christ Jesus.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

To fulfill the Word of God by which we will be judged according to Paul's Gospel. What have we done with this Christ that is in us which has been made known to us NOW.

2 Timothy 1:10-14 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. Christ In us the HOPE of GLORY and kept by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE.

There is only type and shadow of this amazing miracle, in the Old Testament, but now in fact the greatest Miracle of All time in the New Testament. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Are you Perfect?

In Christ: Phillip



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Phillip

 2006/2/17 1:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Were any sealed before the Holy Spirit came that Jesus had promised and that the Father sent, to seal us into Christ, and the Holy Spirit being in us forever who had previously been with us and would come and go upon old testament saints



2 Samuel 23:

2 “The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said,
The Rock of Israel spoke to me:
“He who rules over men must be just,
Ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be like the light of the morning when the sun rises,
A morning without clouds,
Like the tender grass springing out of the earth,
By clear shining after rain.’
5 “Although my house is not so with God,
Yet He has made with me an everlasting covenant,
Ordered in all things and secure.
For this is all my salvation and all my desire;
Will He not make it increase?

In this proclaimation David knows that he has received an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things and secure. This covenant consists of salvation which he declares fills all his desire. And then David declares that this covenant will increase.

Now according to the Scripture that MeAgain posted in 1 Corinthians 2 Paul teaches:

1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

1Cor. 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is David a natural man or a spiritual man based on what he declares in 2 Samuel?

How many believers today understand what David sings about?



f
Quote:
That we might be in Christ and Christ in us, which no other people had ever had by their belief of what God Said About His Son. Oh sure the Old Testament new about the Messiah but they did not know He was a Son and would be born again in the believer.



I remember that you said one time something to the effect that It is the life of Christ grown in the believer that creates salvation in the believer. It was something like that, I am sorry if the words that I used is not reflective of your beliefs. With this in mind, what notion of salvation does David have?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/17 13:58Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Hab. 2:

4 “Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.

In Paul's teaching, he quotes from Habakkuk the means by which all enter into His rest. The Just shall live by faith. In Ephesians, he teaches that the we are saved by grace through faith. According to Scripture from what source does all grace come?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/17 14:11Profile





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