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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Ironman

Quote:
...bro Ron if i may ask, how do you feel about it?


I have studied church history and England's history for many years and discovered that 'morality' goes up and down. It seems from my reading of the topics that a nation's collective conscience becomes defiled with passing years. God in his mercy brings an authentic revival and as well as bringing many into the kingdom of God it seems to have an effect on the unconverted too. It is almost as if it 're-sets the dials' of the conscience and things which have been tolerated for years become intolerable. This is then reflected in our parliament with changes in the legislation.

I think that changes in legislation unless they truly reflect the feeling of the people are regarded as an imposition. What right does a government have to legislate my private life, is the cry.

I think the only hope for England is an authentic revival of God-consciousness which convicts men and women of 'sin' - not immorality. I share the same sense of nausea that others have commented on when I see the events of the last two days, but I have to say that this is the kind of England that most English people want. It's what they call democracy. I'm not a particular fan of democracy. I don't know that it is particularly scriptural but I am required to 'submit' to the powers that be and so long as they do not impose upon me a behaviour that is in conflict with my life in Christ I will submit to them.

Where there is unrighteousness in the execution of the law the Christian is required to protest and if necessary suffer the consequences of his protest. But as regards the marshalling of a 'moral majority' to force parliament to change and thereby impose the Christian concensus on a non-Christian population... I am unhappy with this. Those who live by the protest and the petition may have to be willing to die by the same.

As to your comment 'if we preached repentance...' We must preach what we are sent to preach. Any other kind of preaching is a fake even if it uses the right words. I am not afraid to describe homosexuality as an unnatural perversion, but regards 'preaching against it'... I would prefer to preach 'for Christ' than against anything.

This was Paul's personal testimony:
Quote:
“Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” (Acts 26:17-18, KJVS)

I cannot help but see a certain logical pattern in this commission.
1. he was sent to them
2. to open their eyes
3. to turn them from darkness to light
4. from the power of Satan unto God
5. that they might receive forgiveness
6. and an inheritance among the sanctified

I think this is the gospel, a whole package and unless we are sent we can't even begin the process that follows. I can't find an equivalent to your 'bible condemning homosexuality' in this list. I think the emphasis is elsewhere. I can find very little in the record of the Acts about the preachers 'condemning sin', although I can see a lot of 'lifting up Christ'.

Just my thoughts on the matter, as you asked.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/22 13:29Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Ron
thanks for being forthright about it all. you said

Quote:
I think the only hope for England is an authentic revival of God-consciousness which convicts men and women of 'sin' - not immorality. I share the same sense of nausea that others have commented on when I see the events of the last two days, but I have to say that this is the kind of England that most English people want. It's what they call democracy. I'm not a particular fan of democracy. I don't know that it is particularly scriptural but I am required to 'submit' to the powers that be and so long as they do not impose upon me a behaviour that is in conflict with my life in Christ I will submit to them.



AMEN bro i agree that there is that need on this side of the pond too. As far as democracy goes in the Lord's dealings with men when He handed down law there was no need for ratification by men...i feel that somehow democracy causes us to look at God in a different light, perhaps it's freedom of belief?

when the Lord led me through the acts He showed me that the first thing that has to happen for a man to come to Christ is repentance and one can only repent when convicted of sin. that requires speaking out against it, i don't think we can dodge that responsibility.

at any rate thanks again and God bless


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/12/22 14:08Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Ironman's

Quote:
one can only repent when convicted of sin. that requires speaking out against it,


This passage came to mind...“And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake. And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink. When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.” (Luke 5:6-8, KJVS)...and not a word spoken! Real repentance comes as a result of a revelation of the nature of God, although He may use the preacher to accomplish that.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/22 18:08Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Ron

Quote:
...and not a word spoken! Real repentance comes as a result of a revelation of the nature of God, although He may use the preacher to accomplish that.



very true, i stand corrected. thank you


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/12/22 18:49Profile









 Re:

Philogos wrote

Quote:
am not afraid to describe homosexuality as an unnatural perversion, but regards 'preaching against it'... I would prefer to preach 'for Christ' than against anything.



Wow, this really blew my mind. This is the very thing that Christ did. I hear preachers going around saying we need to preach against sin, yet the very thing that Christ did was the opposite, He gave them something that enabled them to overcome sin.

Paul even said the same things by saying, paraphrasing, "you tell others not to sin, but you do the same thing".

It seems to be in some circles that if you don't preach against sin your a wimp, but that is so far from the truth. We need to preach Christ and Him crucified.

Repentance came on the Day of Pentecost not because Peter preached against certain sins, no sir, he preached Christ and in whom THEY crucified and 5000 souls repented and gave their hearts to the LORD Jesus.

Peter preached another message that was just the same that received the same results.

Thank you brother for sharing that wisdom, man that was good. Preaching against sin is not the answer, but preaching Christ is, and that alone is something that is rarely done.

Well folks, I want to preach Christ and Christ alone.

And now that I think of it and have observed over the years those who preach against this or that, I have found the one pointing the finger is guilty of the same crimes.

I wonder what would happen if we preached the cross, preached Christ and Him crucified, I wonder what kind of results we would have.

Oh yes the fiery burning messages of fire and brimstone are so popular and they make the ole hair to stand and makes you want to straighten up and fly right. Oh I have sat thru many of them, but nothing changes, it makes this old flesh feel good for a few hours and then it's over.

Thanks Philogos for that..........that is refreshing to know.

Karl

 2005/12/22 23:24
PaulWiglaf
Member



Joined: 2005/8/31
Posts: 61
Hartselle, Alabama

 Re:

I guess it's like everyone knows the building's burning; they just need to know the way out.

 2005/12/22 23:30Profile









 Re:

Paul

Wow, I am speechless, that was perfect. Praise God for that, that is right on. The house is burning and Jesus is the door and the way out. Why preach to people that they are sinners when that revelation will come to them when we preach Christ and Him crucified.

I am getting fed tonight boys. Praise the LORD.

Karl

 2005/12/22 23:35
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

I agree with everything said on this thread: revival must needs govern the lifestyle of all. However, I would like to present another perspective.

Romans 13 describes to us the ministry of the civil authorities. Their purpose is to: be a terror to the evil. (v.4). Now who will define what evil is? Where will they get that information? I have had many clients tell me there is nothing wrong with Aortion (AB) because it is legal! Believe it or not, a lot of people look to what the civil law says to determine what is right and wrong! Carnal? You bet. Laws are essential to have an orderly society. So where is the inspiration going to come from in order to have this orderly society?

Am I promoting that one should take an active role in lobbying for 'righteous' laws? No. But then I would not condemn those that feel called to do so..as long as they do not violate any Biblical principle. It must be understood the keeping of these laws will not make a nation righteous. Just provide its people with a place to live where there is law and order. History has also shown where there was revival, the law officers had nothing to do! Ideal, but it happens rarely, unfortunately.

Just my opinion....

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2005/12/23 12:25Profile





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