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 Re:

Quote:
I used to be a charismatic. I chased "the annointing" by going out of my way to see Jesse Duplantis, Rod Parsley, David Hogan and Benny Hinn. I am thankful to Jesus that He delivered me from such error and revealed to me that this movement is full of emotionalism and big talking and stories with no real hunger to know the truth or desire to exalt Jesus as Lord. Instead, people are being exalted and the true preaching of God's Word is replaced by singing, dramatic emotional experiences and more singing. And if anyone questions these leaders or the movement, guess what they are called. Yep, that's right-religious pharisees. Well, call me what you will, but I care about the TRUTH being told and I care about your soul. There are many dangerous doctrines in the charismatic movement. If you truly are Christ's, you will obey His Word, rather than following experiences that contradict His Word. Read the Bible and any experience that claims to be of God needs to be tested by the Bible.



Ditto... thats my testimony as well.

Krispy

 2005/12/21 6:10
sj
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 83


 Re:

I see alot of ignorance arguing against experience.
blah blah blah, you went there and you cant prove a whit of what you are saying.

 2005/12/21 9:28Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re:

It is not ignorance, just a simple understanding that experience is not authoritative. The Word of God is. Expereince does indeed authenticate the authority of the Word, but it can never surplant it as authroitative in and of itself. If can validate but not dictate.

Blessings.


_________________
Ed Raby

 2005/12/21 15:04Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hello. the idea that some of us have that the bible has set us up to be judges and juries over everything that happens everywhere is forbidden by scripture. there are three words in the greek that are translated 'judge'1. krinos 2.anakrinos3 diakrinos .. do a word study on these before you write your next post. and people ask" why revival tarries' jimp

 2005/12/21 16:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
hello. the idea that some of us have that the bible has set us up to be judges and juries over everything that happens everywhere is forbidden by scripture. there are three words in the greek that are translated 'judge'1. krinos 2.anakrinos3 diakrinos .. do a word study on these before you write your next post. and people ask" why revival tarries' jimp



I recommend the book "Who Are You To Judge" by Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer. It's a balanced look at what scripture says concerning the Christians responsibility to judge all things with righteous judgement.

I challenge anyone on here who believes that we should not judge doctrine, teachings, movements, etc to read this book. I double dare ya... :-)

Krispy

 2005/12/22 8:05
sj
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 83


 Re:

Without experience you cannot possibly understand.
That IS why Ravenhill said "A man with an experience is NEVER subject to a man with an argument."
You will call that heresy or whatever but it's a both a Scriptural and experiental fact that the Scriptures only make sense in the Presence of God.
Proof?
The entire Jewish nation missed Jesus because of their wrong understanding of what to expect.
The Disciples who were in His presence seemed to get it more than them but even still struggled.
Intimacy creates accuracy. There is NO accuracy without intimacy.
Experience:
1. You never understood salvation untill you experienced it
2. I'm sure you never understood the Baptism of the Holy Spirit untill you experienced it. (if you have not yet than that explains alot)

And i can say as a matter of fact that if you havent experienced it and you discount the experience of those who have you dont have a clue what real revival is. And you are too proud to find out from people who do.

 2005/12/22 8:24Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
There is NO accuracy without intimacy.



There is also no intimacy without accuracy either. The two go hand in hand. Accuracey about the God we serve also builds intimacy as well. Example: The more I truly see the way my wife really is the more our relationship grows. If I try to make her into something she is not -- relationship suffers. The same is true with God. Many have expereinced God's wrath and assaumed that is all he is about or his mercy and the same. It is only in Scriptural revealation that we have a hope of seeing God for who he really is. It defines the relationship and the terms of the covenant we must have with him. Reason, expereince and tradition cannot do this -- they all have a tendency to shape God into an image that is acceptable to us. This is idolatry.

Blessings.


_________________
Ed Raby

 2005/12/22 21:39Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:
I recommend the book "Who Are You To Judge" by Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer. It's a balanced look at what scripture says concerning the Christians responsibility to judge all things with righteous judgement.

I challenge anyone on here who believes that we should not judge doctrine, teachings, movements, etc to read this book. I double dare ya...



Hey Krispy - good to see you back around again - your posts (most ;-)) have been a blessing. I'm not much for reading other then the Bible and the "dead guys" (Wesley, Finney, Edwards, Murray, Whitefield, Bounds, etc.) The last book I read by a "living guy" was per your recommendation - Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola. I read the entire book in 2 days and was glad I did. So I think I will take your suggestion again - this book sounds right up my alley and I know Lutzer wrote the forward to K.P.'s book Road To Reality so he already has a mark in the plus column in my mind.

What happens if we a good ministry like World Challenge, Gospel For Asia or Living Waters suddenly take a turn for the worse and head down a path of destruction? I look forward reading this book - thanks for the challenge Krispy.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/12/23 1:10Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi your honors,lol i will give you a ravenhill quote maybe some of you might not have heard him say" many know the word of God but fewer know the God of the word". critisizm iswhat makes aqa man like a strong tower,and is really worthless. to tell a roman that the earth is filled with the blood of their victoms and that the error of their doctrine would fil the universe would tend to shut his hearing aid off.you would have the truth, the Lord, the bible but you would neverreach him.if we demonstrate JESUS TO PEOPLE and preach the gospel[good news]in love and wisdom He will add to the church daily. jimp

 2005/12/23 5:24Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Always learning...

Might be more careful in choosing where to insert quotes in the future.

Quote:

Without experience you cannot possibly understand.
That IS why Ravenhill said "A man with an experience is NEVER subject to a man with an argument."
You will call that heresy or whatever but it's a both a Scriptural and experiental fact that the Scriptures only make sense in the Presence of God.
Proof?
The entire Jewish nation missed Jesus because of their wrong understanding of what to expect.
The Disciples who were in His presence seemed to get it more than them but even still struggled.
Intimacy creates accuracy. There is NO accuracy without intimacy.
Experience:
1. You never understood salvation untill you experienced it
2. I'm sure you never understood the Baptism of the Holy Spirit untill you experienced it. (if you have not yet than that explains alot)

And i can say as a matter of fact that if you havent experienced it and you discount the experience of those who have you dont have a clue what real revival is. And you are too proud to find out from people who do.



Unfortunately it is not all that easy and it might be telling to re-read your own words there in the use of the word; "proud".

Though it was adequately addressed already, a bit of clarification. Ravenhill may not have been the originator of that sentiment but I think the tense of it is brought out here:

[i]"Neither side can prove with pure powers of logic their argument, and in the end it comes down to the power behind what you believe. That is where the real difference lies. That is why a man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. It's one thing to wax philosophical about the conditions of war or even how soldiers conduct themselves, but its another thing to have been there and know why soldiers behave the way they do. The man with philosophy is never at the mercy of the soldier. There is power in experience[/i]".

Came across that looking for the context of Ravenhills particular quotation. The point seems to be at the [i]mercy[/i] of, not that the proof is in experience [i]alone[/i], that what be sure folly, it's only that the burden falls on the one with an argument bereft of any particular 'experience', not just "your" experience.

Sir-Edward grasped it rightly;
Quote:
There is also no intimacy without accuracy either. The two go hand in hand.



It is just as easy to forget that one is talking with other believers here who have had there own particular experiences, not always good and those can range across all kinds of other matters beyond just one particular point in time.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/23 9:43Profile





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