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letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

Wesley's comments:

"And from the days of John - That is, from the time that John had fulfilled his ministry, men rush into my kingdom with a violence like that of those who are taking a city by storm."


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Hal Bachman

 2005/12/16 10:48Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Is this really how you got into the kingdom? or was it by grace through faith?



bro Ron
grace through faith requires that we strive with the Lord's help of course against our flesh and the enemy. if that grace and faith doesn't cause us to rise up against our flesh and the enemy or strive to live in the Spirit then we haven't received salvation. we can't afford to be timid about this, the enemy certainly comes out swinging so we have to do the same.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/12/16 11:42Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

I have heard this verse used in exhorting a attitude towards ones own walk in the kingdom.

In other words it is more exhortation to extreme focus and zealousness in bringing the kingdom.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/12/16 13:41Profile
suzy
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Joined: 2005/12/11
Posts: 69
Devon, England

 Re: Matthew 11 v 12

A verse that has puzzled me too. Just another contribution towards the meaning from Matthew Henry, whose Commentary is now on line:

http://www.ccel.org/h/henry/mhc2/MHC40011.HTM

If you scroll down a little to 'Christ's Testimony of John' (verses 7 - 15), it appears in context.

You may find the English a little archaic; Matthew Henry (1662 - 1714) was a Welsh-born English non-conformist minister and Bible commentator.

Sue


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Sue

 2005/12/16 15:19Profile
Nellie
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Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

The Full Life Study Bible notes have this to say about this Scripture.
In Matt.11:12 Jesus gives additional information on the nature of kingdom people.
There He indicates that the kingdom of Heaven is taken hold of only by forceful people who are committed to breaking away from the sinful and immoral practices of the human race and who turn to Christ, His Word, and His Righteous ways.
No matter what may be the cost to themselves, such people vigorously seek the kingdom in all its power. In other words, experiencing the kingdom of Heaven and all its blessings requires earnest endeavor and constant exertion- a fight of faith, accompanied by a strong will to resist Satan, sin, and one's perverse society.
Nellie
:-)

 2005/12/16 21:44Profile
Larryv2
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Joined: 2022/2/17
Posts: 6


 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

I'm new and I'm not sure everyone will see this and I realize this question is very old, nevertheless:

Have any of you considered the Two Witnesses in Rev chapter 11? The context involves the preaching of John the Baptist and many people have made the dispensational connections between the two events. Their preaching could certainly be considered violence.

I do like the points that Spurgeon made in the video that someone posted.

 2022/2/17 14:05Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

Violence is not bad nor evil in and of itself tho the intent of the heart can make it so...
When the intent of the heart is itself pure, the violence that comes forth is also pure...
ie; David and Goliath, Noah shutting the doors of the ark, Elijah dispatching the prophets of Baal, Jesus overturning the tables, Jesus using a whip, Stephen confrontIng the hypocrites, etc...
And when the intent is not pure (of God) but is mixed then we get; Peter cutting the ear off, Saul holding the coats, the Pharisees conspiracy against Christ, etc...

(For me) When viewing a passage that has multiple ways to interpret it (just look at how incompatible the different translations are on this verse) it’s imperative to find its corresponding verse so as to provide a definitive guide for the context -

Luk 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man “presseth G971” into it.

Here the same word (G971) which in Matt was translated as violence, is here translated as presseth in the corresponding verse- this helps to clarify all the confusion and there’s wayyy too much regarding Matthew’s verbiage in his passage.

For example the NLT states that “the kingdom has been forcefully advancing and violent people are attacking it”
Another example is the NIV states that “the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence and violent people are raiding it” 😳🤯

Here’s Jesus’s take on the matter, “ My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Considering Luke 16:16 where the same word is used to quote Jesus in reference to the same instance.... can there really be a question?










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Fletcher

 2022/2/19 12:38Profile
Platy
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Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 293


 Re:

Galatians 6:12 - As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Its easier to do outward rituals such as circumcision than to go the way of the cross.

Think when people become born again they give up lifestyles or traditions and as a result many times their family and friends turn on them and they suffer persecution. You have to fight against worldly people, devils, your flesh, and also endure God's chastisements (see Hebrews 12:1-13). All these come from doing the will of God.

The start:
I Thessalonians 2:13-16 - [13] For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. [14] For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: [15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: [16] Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Enduring:
Hebrews 10:32-39 - [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35] Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. [36] For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. [37] For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [38] Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [39] But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The desired end:
Revelation 21:7 - He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Another verse similar to Matthew 11:12 and Luke 16:16:
Luke 13:24 - ¶ Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_c22M_Z9jc

 2022/2/19 17:14Profile





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