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rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
We must believe that we are already in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus or we will never grow in the things of God and His Kingdom.



Scripture tells us that this is true brother. But the idea, "we must believe," finds its strength not in what we can muster up...nor thinking that we understand what Heavenly places in Christ Jesus might mean, might look like, might feel like. Rather it is the Holy Spirit that reveals the Heavenly...

I am not struggling against you brother, but struggling with words so that we together might come to a deeper understanding of where we are and how Christ creates the hope that is in us...

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/5 15:39Profile
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 Re:

What truly is our place in Christ Jesus?

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:


Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.

The praise of Who's Glory?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

On and On we could go, 146 times in Christ is spoken. What is this heavenly places in Christ Jesus? "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works". Who's workmanship? God the Father, has already placed us in Christ, and where is Christ? In Heavenly places, and if Christ is in us, where is the Heavenly place? You see we are the heavenly place that Christ dwells and the Holy Spirit dwells and the Father also. We are God's dwelling place, we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, we Glory in Christ by God Himself who has made us a new creature in Christ Jesus. I don't have to see Christ to have Him in me. I don't see the wind but I know when it is blowing. I don't have to see Heaven to Have Heaven in me by the Christ that is in Heavenly Places. Are we not members of one another and one Body of Christ His Church. Satan can no longer take the gates of Hell into heavenly places. The Christ in us will no longer accept any accusations from Satan like Job, Christ in us already defeated Satan on the high place by the Word of God and the Cross, crushing his head.

If Christ be no risen our faith is dead. In other words without Christ in us, "if He be no risen" we don't have the Faith of the Son of God, which is heavenly Faith, and we cannot be in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus, But He is risen and our Faith is His Faith our Life is His life and our place is already in Heavenly Places. Every thought captive; 2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
This is where our Heavenly Place is, it is the knowledge of Christ In us the Hope of Glory. Thought, the soul mind, is where we are to be in heavenly places, if the Spirit of Christ be in you, We are to know, again Know that we are already in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus, and on Resurrection morning we will be translated physically into the Kingdom House our prepared place of our Dear Father, but until then we are still seated in Heavenly Places in spirit and soul, knowledge of what is true, We are complete in Spirit we are becoming complete in our soul (MIND) and we will be complete in body which will be just like His. In Christ. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/10 14:43Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The Christ in us will no longer accept any accusations from Satan like Job, Christ in us already defeated Satan on the high place by the Word of God and the Cross, crushing his head.



This person in the OT also experienced what you have described here...

Zech. 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”

Zech. 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel.

Zech. 3:4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.”

Zech. 3:5 And I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head.”

So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the LORD stood by.

Zech. 3:6 Then the Angel of the LORD admonished Joshua, saying, 7 “Thus says the LORD of hosts:
‘If you will walk in My ways,
And if you will keep My command,
Then you shall also judge My house,
And likewise have charge of My courts;
I will give you places to walk
Among these who stand here.
8 “Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH.


What did Christ do for Joshua the high priest when Satan was rebuked and Josuah was pulled out of Satan's grasp?

In terms of the Godhead, what did God accomplish when He spoke to Josuah the high priest: For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH.


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/10 16:10Profile
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 Re:

Zec 3:1
While the Jews were rebuilding their temple, their adversaries endeavored to stop the work, Ezra 5. This vision is therefore calculated to give them the strongest encouragement that God, after plucking them as brands out of the fire (or captivity of Babylon), would not now give them up, but would continue to prosper and favor them; and that notwithstanding the interruptions they should meet with, the work should be finished under the gracious superintendence of Providence; and their high priest, clothed in his pontifical robes, would soon officiate in the holy of holies, Zec 3:1-7. The subject is then, by an easy transition, applied to a much greater future deliverance and restoration, of which Joshua and his companions, delivered now, are declared to be figures or types; for that the Messiah or Branch, the great high priest typified by Joshua, would be manifested; and, like the principal stone represented in the vision, become the chief corner stone of his Church; that the all-seeing eye of God would constantly guard it; and that by his atonement he would procure for it peace and pardon, Zec 3:8-10.

The Angle of the Lord is most likely the Messiah. In pointing to Joshua, He is pointing to His Church which He will control and defeat Satan completely, by His work on the Cross and Satan will never stand beside the New Believer in Christ, with Christ Born in him and resist the believer. Satan still has some control over the unbelieving heathen and can use them to his benefit and for his work. Satan can never accuse the brethren before The Lord again. We are His Body the Church and Satan will not prevail against or accuse it ever. The difference is in the birthing. Joshua was not birthed by God, he was created and chosen to be a picture of The Christ that would come.

Big difference, in a created being and a birthed child. With the collective intelligence we have in the world today man could create an intelligent being, capable of learning and adapting to its surrounding but this is still a created being. Just like God, He created man, a little better than man could created now, but man was still created. Man can only have a being like himself by a father placing a seed in a mother and a child be born. This is what God has done with Christ birthed in us. God is trying to show us in every way the His Own Seed is needed to produce a Son, with His Nature to be God in the Son. We are born again by the Incorruptable Seed of God the Father which is Christ Jesus born again in the believer. Joshua was no and could not be born again, he was a created being not a relative with Gods own Son's DNA, that is Spiritual DNA, until resurrection Morning then It will be complete DNA, and we will be just like Jesus Christ the Only Begotten Son of God, with His DNA as ours, and most importantly On Resurrection Morning we will get New Heavenly Bodies Like Christ with no blood in Them. Christ said, "see I have flesh and bone and I eat, but no blood. Joshua had blood and he will have to loose that blood in resurrection just as we do. We have The Spirit of Christ, the whole ball of Wax, We have Gods Holy Spirit, the whole ball of Wax, in slang whole ball of was is, there is nothing left to get, the wax, all of it is in the ball, we have even God the Father in us, The whole of all that is. Joshua could not have, he was not born again.

In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/10 19:59Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Joshua was not birthed by God, he was created and chosen to be a picture of The Christ that would come.



This idea that you point to: "he was created and chosen to be a picture of The Christ... reminds me of this Scripture:

Romans 8:
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,...

Zec 3:
8 “Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;

Romans 8:
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

All whom He predestined...He also glorified. "For they are a wondrous sign...


Quote:
With the collective intelligence we have in the world today man could create an intelligent being, capable of learning and adapting to its surrounding but this is still a created being. Just like God, He created man, a little better than man could created now, but man was still created. Man can only have a being like himself by a father placing a seed in a mother and a child be born.



That is why Scripture refer to us as being "adopted."

Eph 1:

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Those who are birthed by God are adopted unlike Christ Himself when He became man.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/11 11:10Profile
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 Re:

Use the whole quote: Not just the part you want to comment on.

"""Big difference, in a created being and a birthed child. With the collective intelligence we have in the world today man could create an intelligent being, capable of learning and adapting to its surrounding but this is still a created being. Just like God, He created man, a little better than man could created now, but man was still created. Man can only have a being like himself by a father placing a seed in a mother and a child be born. This is what God has done with Christ birthed in us. God is trying to show us in every way the His Own Seed is needed to produce a Son, with His Nature to be God in the Son. We are born again by the Incorruptable Seed of God the Father which is Christ Jesus born again in the believer."""

Yes, Jeff, the adoption part is the legal portion of our birthing. We are son's because of Christ in us, this is spiritual, (Godly Nature) God wanted to make it legal also hence the legality of adopted son's. Adopted son's have all the rights of the only begotten Son. Being rebirthed by Christ, The Fathers Seed in us we have birth rights also. By birth right and legally we are son's of God. Joshua did not have either of these, he only had the promise and God will deal with that when Christ comes and sits on the Throne of David in the millennium, Joshua will also be a son of God, but he will be an earthly son, not a heavenly birthed son. All Israel's promises are earthly except Abraham's Seed which is singular, Christ is the promised Seed of Abraham and the born again are the since Pentecost are the beneficiaries of that promise, Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Verse 27. To whom. To the Gentile saints.
God would make known. "Willed (Gr.) to make known;" that is, he was pleased to make this known. It was concealed in His bosom until He chose to reveal it to his apostle Paul. It was a doctrine which the Jewish people did not understand, Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, (notice, not son's of God) as it is now revealed unto his holy apostle Paul, by the Spirit of Christ Himself. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by Paul's gospel, which he entreated 5 times as his Gospel given direct to him. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Phl 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. (What is his grace? "MY Gospel," which is the final Gospel for those in Christ. I also consider it my Gospel given to Paul and all that would believe by Paul, because it is Just For me, and like Paul I want everyone to hear it and see it in me and that it is for them also by The Spirit of Christ in them, revealed By the Holy Spirit.


What is the riches of the glory of this mystery. The rich glory of this great, long-concealed truth. On the use of the word riches, It is a favourite word with the apostle Paul to denote that which is valuable, or that which abounds. The meaning here is, that the truth that the gospel was to be preached to all mankind, was a truth abounding in glory.

Among the Gentiles. That is, the glory of this truth is manifested by the effects which it has produced among the Gentiles.

Which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. The meaning is, that the whole of that truth, so full of glory, and so rich and elevated in its effect, is summed up in this--that Christ is revealed in and among you as the source of the hope of glory in a heavenly place and while Paul lived, this was his only thought, "To Know Him. This was the great truth which so animated the heart and. fired the zeal of the apostle Paul, which Christ had given him Personally. The wonderful announcement had burst in his mind like a flood, that the offer of salvation was not to be confined, as Paul had once supposed, to the Jewish people, but that all men were now placed on a level; that they had a common Saviour; that the same heaven Israel looked for, but a new way was now opened for all, and that there were none so degraded and vile that they might not have the offer of life in Christ Jesus as well as others. This great truth Paul burned to communicate to the whole world; and for holding it, and in making it known, he had involved himself in all the difficulties which he had with his own countrymen even unto death.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/11 13:28Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Yes, Jeff, the adoption part is the legal portion of our birthing. We are son's because of Christ in us, this is spiritual, (Godly Nature) God wanted to make it legal also hence the legality of adopted son's. Adopted son's have all the rights of the only begotten Son. Being rebirthed by Christ, The Fathers Seed in us we have birth rights also. By birth right and legally we are son's of God.



Adoption is more than legal...

We wait just like those of the OT saints for this to happen...


Rom. 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Heb. 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.


Our minds must be renewed daily now even after we are born again. Our flesh now is corrupt. There is no difference between all the saints in this life.

47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Only at the last trumpet. Man is born of the dust, He lives once, dies once, and is judged once.

All men born of the dust must therefore be adopted because of the corrupt flesh and blood.

In Christ
Jeff






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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/11 15:32Profile
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 Re:

Zech 3:

8 “Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH.

Zech. 6:12 Then speak to him, saying, “Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying:
‘Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH!
From His place He shall branch out,
And He shall build the temple of the LORD;


Jer. 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.

Jer. 33:14 “Behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah:
15 “In those days and at that time
I will cause to grow up to David
A Branch of righteousness;
He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
16 In those days Judah will be saved,
And Jerusalem will dwell safely.
And this is the name by which she will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.’

Jer. 33:17 “For thus says the LORD: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; 18 nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ”

The Branch is the Seed. When did Jesus do this work spoken of in verse 17?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/11 15:44Profile
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 Re:

Hi Jeff,

I am not going to use the precious time we have left to argue with you over the old testament and new testament differences because of the old covenant and new covenant.

If you study this part of Paul's suffering for his brethren, Which is Israel you will see how much Christ has done for the Gentiles and the remnant of Israel. Israel in the old testament was saved by the works of the Law without faith.
Everyone in Christ has been saved by Faith, even then called the children of God, not the children of Israel.

Romans 9:1-33 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. ((((Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:)))) but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (((That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:))) but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, (((that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;))) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Israel stumbled and Jesus Christ was an offence to them and they crucified the Lord of Glory. If it were not for the remnant saved by the mercy of God none would survive. Only the remnant of God's choosing will come forth out of Israel. We cannot change what God has done or even ask why did you make Israel that way. Why us and not them, to have the Promise in us and not them. Paul has plainly shown that the Law of Righteousness was not attained by Israel because of no faith to Make Christ real In them by the only way God has provided and given to those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Grace through Faith, which is Gods Faith in Christ that is in the born again.

We are saved by Grace by Faith and that is not of ourselves. By Faith which is Christ's Faith have the children of God attained righteousness, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
1 Corinthians 1:29-30 That no flesh should Glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Israel is not in Christ Jesus and He is made our righteousness by God's own Choice. 1 Corinthians 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Not glory in the Law of Righteousness whom no one can attain, but in Righteousness made in Christ Jesus in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/11 21:13Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted:



Quote:
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.




Here at the end of this Scripture Paul states the Christ is over all. Who were the "all" that Paul identifed in this section of Scripture?

Phillip, this thread pretains to the Godhead. Many will teach only from what they have been taught of the Trinity and they will begin in the NT. All Scripture points to what we may come to understand what it means to know the Holy One. All Scripture can be safely used to discover who is the Branch. All Scripture can be meditated upon to discover the work that is preformed according to the Order of Melchizedec. All Scripture points to the Father, the Seed, and the Counselor.

Proverbs 3

17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
And all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who retain her.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/12 10:20Profile





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