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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
e New Covenant in Christ did not start with Abraham or at Pentecost. The New Covenant in Christ started with Christ, and He is the barer of this New Covenant. Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




Many teach of Jesus beginning in the NT... Yet consider these Scriptures...

Here an angel of God spoke to Mary...

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Here demons recognize Jesus and call Him the Holy One..

Luke 4:33 Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, 34 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”


Here Peter identified Jesus as the Holy One...

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

Here John identifies Jesus as the Holy One...

1John 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.


In the OT Hosea speaks of this Holy One...

Hos. 11:8 “How can I give you up, Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I set you like Zeboiim?
My heart churns within Me;
My sympathy is stirred.
9 I will not execute the fierceness of My anger;
I will not again destroy Ephraim.
For I am God, and not man,
The Holy One in your midst;
And I will not come with terror.
10 “They shall walk after the LORD.
He will roar like a lion.
When He roars,
Then His sons shall come trembling from the west;
11 They shall come trembling like a bird from Egypt,
Like a dove from the land of Assyria.
And I will let them dwell in their houses,”
Says the LORD.
12 “Ephraim has encircled Me with lies,
And the house of Israel with deceit;
But Judah still walks with God,
Even with the Holy One who is faithful.

Isaiah speaks of this Holy One...

Is. 60:8 “Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roosts?
9 Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
To bring your sons from afar,
Their silver and their gold with them,
To the name of the LORD your God,
And to the Holy One of Israel,
Because He has glorified you.

Search the Scriptures, find this Holy One...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/27 11:02Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Here is another Scripture which speaks of the Holy One,

Prov. 30:2 Surely I am more stupid than any man,
And do not have the understanding of a man.
3 I neither learned wisdom
Nor have knowledge of the Holy One.
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

In the last sentence...

"What is His name, and what is His Son's name...

Prov. 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser;
Teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For by me your days will be multiplied,
And years of life will be added to you.



Psa. 78:40 How often they provoked Him in the wilderness,
And grieved Him in the desert!
41 Yes, again and again they tempted God,
And limited the Holy One of Israel.
42 They did not remember His power:
The day when He redeemed them from the enemy,

Remember what Paul taught to the Corinthians?

1 Corinthians 10:

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Do you see Christ in the OT leading those who are His?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/27 13:00Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
Ca.

 Re:

Why do you seek Christ in the Old Testament? Christ is the Word of God, He is the Whole of the Bible. If we do not see Christ in the Old Testament, we miss the whole plan of God, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory, I am not concerned about Israel, She is in very capable Hands and He will not forsake His wife as we see in Hosea.

We are concerned with Christ and Who He is to His Body the Church. Which is now. Why be concerned with anything else but NOW, and the future If God Permits. The old man, the old testament, the old life is no more, behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Phl 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/27 16:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
We are concerned with Christ and Who He is to His Body the Church. Which is now.



When Peter preached in Acts 3:

12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Peter refers to Jesus as the Prince, the Holy One, and the Servant. What is revealed in the OT concerning the Holy One, the Prince, and the Servant?

Then Peter goes on to talk about Abraham;

25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, “And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

Those who lived by faith in the OT were the "called out" just like those who live in the church age. What is "now" is not new but has always been the "ancient path."

To know Christ and the mysteries of God, one will find the Godhead revealed in the OT.

I encourage you to grow in understanding of the NT by what is revealed in the OT. I once believed all I needed was found in the NT...I have learned that the Spirit makes foolish the wisdom of men.

Isaiah 29:

Is. 29:11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.”

And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”

Is. 29:12 Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.”

And he says, “I am not literate.”

Is. 29:13 Therefore the Lord said:
“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work
Among this people,
A marvelous work and a wonder;
For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.”


God promised to "again do a marvelous work." Understanding can only come to those whom He opens the book to.

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


Faith that is birthed by God produces the same kind of children, they all are being conformed into the image of His Son. The faith of Abraham creates the same results as the faith of Paul. They were both birthed by the woman and her Seed.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/28 12:00Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
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 Re:

Of course Peter spoke from the old testament, that is all he knew. What He said about Christ was what he knew by living with Jesus for three years who was offering the Kingdom to Israel with Him as their King and Lord. They did not accept Him as such and the parable of the householder who planted a vineyard, which is God and the House of Israel. Matthew 21:37-39 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. This is what Peter was preaching to the men of Israel. There is nothing about the Cross and Christ being born again in the believer, the mystery which God gave to Paul 15 years later.

What Peter was preaching and what Paul would eventually preach is completely different. Peter was still preaching works, repent and be baptized. Paul, when the mystery was revealed to him was preaching only believe and you will be saved and salvation is Christ in you the Hope of Glory, fulfilling Christ's statement, "you must be born again or you cannot see the things or inter into the of the Kingdom of God." John 3:5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Peter was preaching Flesh, Paul was preaching Spirit as John confirms in John 14,15,16,27.

You wrote:
"Peter refers to Jesus as the Prince, the Holy One, and the Servant. What is revealed in the OT concerning the Holy One, the Prince, and the Servant?"

Paul refers to Jesus as the, He was the Christ like Peter, That's pretty much where it ends for quite a while until Peter saw that Christ was the Incorruptable Seed that it takes to be born again which he never mentioned in any of his preaching in Acts.

Paul's ministry began with his earliest letters to the Thessalonians and in Romans he declares his intentions. Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace and Peace. Then declaring his revelation from Jesus Christ Himself as, Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. My Gospel, declaring righteousness of God by the faith of Jesus Christ for those that believe. Also justification and redemption in Christ.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The atonement, Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Abundance of Grace defeating death, Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Baptized into His death, freedom from sin, Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

No condemnation in Christ, Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Free from sin and death and our bodies even quickened to contain Christ in you, the Father in you, The Holy Spirit in you. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

That we may glorify God the Father, Rom 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Confirming Christs ministry to Israel which they refused. Also confirming Paul's ministry to the gentiles which they will hear. Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:

Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Even the bruising of Satan by the feet of believers, Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

Called by God to fellowship with Christ, 1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

We have the wisdom of Christ, the righteousness and sanctified and redeemed in Christ. 1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

We need nothing but Christ the foundation stone, 1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

God has Washed, sanctified, justified us by Christ in us, 1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This is just Romans and a little of Corinthians,
I think Peter's preaching is lacking when it comes to Paul's direct revelation of Christ in us the Hope of Glory and all of what it entails for the Born Again. All Peter knew was Jesus of Nazareth the man, whom we are not to know Him as such anymore. 2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. Eph 3:16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man;

You wrote;
"They were both birthed by the woman and her Seed."

Abraham was not born again, and could not be, but will be. Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

WE are not a people, son's of Israel. We are son's of God by Jesus Christ in us.


In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/4/29 4:05Profile









 Re:

Chrstinyou posted:
You wrote;
"They were both birthed by the woman and her Seed."

Abraham was not born again, and could not be, but will be. Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

WE are not a people, son's of Israel. We are son's of God by Jesus Christ in us.


In Christ: Phillip

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever's response:

Praise the Lord. The Truth that is posted above can only be found when the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of the believer, as He/She studies God's Word!

God bless,

Stever

 2006/4/30 0:59
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
What Peter was preaching and what Paul would eventually preach is completely different. Peter was still preaching works, repent and be baptized.



Were the people who listened to Peter, who were added to the Church daily healed? If so, by what means did God heal them? If they enter His church, is not Christ in them?





Quote:
Paul refers to Jesus as the, He was the Christ like Peter, That's pretty much where it ends for quite a while until Peter saw that Christ was the Incorruptable Seed that it takes to be born again which he never mentioned in any of his preaching in Acts.



This thread is about the godhead, do you see Christ leading His people in the OT?

Who is the Holy One of the OT?

Who is Melchizedech?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/30 11:43Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3695
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 Re:

"Were the people who listened to Peter, who were added to the Church daily healed? If so, by what means did God heal them? If they enter His church, is not Christ in them?"

HI Jeff, Yes they had Christ in them but they did not know it until it was revealed by Paul. Even Peter said, "2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

The Old Testament is Christ, the New Testament is Christ. They have a different dispensation of time in there presentation of Jesus Christ. Yes, He is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, but Melchizedeck and The Christ of the Cross are different in there application when it comes to salvation, One by Law and one by Grace through Faith and New Birth. Abraham and Melchizedeck did not have Life in them, they only had obedience rewards. The Melchizedeck (if you will) of the Cross is Life and Grace Through Faith unto new Creatures Born Again of The Father's Seed.

I know that dispensationalism is a bad word to a lot of People and the word means economy. Dispensation: 3622. oikonomia
Search for G3622 in KJVSL
oikonomia oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah

from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

The economy of Israel is not the economy of the Church. The economy of Russia is not the same as the U. S. People are dealt with different in Russia than they deal with people in the U.S.
The Same In the Old Testament. God is not dealing with the Church the same as He dealt with Israel. Same God, different economy, dispensation of time, if you will. Same God, dealing with the economy of the Church different from Israel. Salvation not by obedience to the Law, but salvation by believing in the Son of God. No more law to condemn but Grace to set free The body of Christ the Church. Love and the commandments of Christ are easy to accomplish in the economy of Christ in You the Hope of Glory. What did Christ say He would build His Church on, The Revelation the Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Not the chosen people of Israel who God Himself in the earthly temple dealt with them by Moses' economy.

I am not an ultra dispensationalist or a keeper of dispensationalism out of religion. I see the division of Gods Word and Him dealing with His Creation in different ways in different allotted periods of time. As this is the economy of Grace an allotted period of time for the Body of Christ His Church. Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Israel: Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? They do have a fullness of Time and that is when Jesus Christ sits on Davids Throne.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/30 12:44Profile
rookie
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Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
but Melchizedeck and The Christ of the Cross are different in there application when it comes to salvation, One by Law and one by Grace through Faith and New Birth.




Melchizedeck came to Abraham at least 430 years before the Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai. In this "dispensation"-- for what pupose did the Priestly order of Melchizedeck exist?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/1 13:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The economy of Israel is not the economy of the Church.



Psa. 30:1 I will extol You, O LORD, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my foes rejoice over me.
2 O LORD my God, I cried out to You,
And You healed me.
3 O LORD, You brought my soul up from the grave;
You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

In this Scripture we find that the Lord healed. What kind of healing has taken place? By what means was this man healed? And what is the result of the healing? (Spiritual or physical)

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/1 13:55Profile





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