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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
Ca.

 Re:

Luke 22:39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. This was His custom, and He had been there at least 2 times before and ask the same question. Do you want to take this cup from me and I stay for another year, yet not My will but Your's be done. Jesus knew there was only one 24 hour period He could dye on the Cross, and He was asking is it this time or not. In seeing His own suffering on the Cross which He already had said this was going to happen to the Apostles. He was not asking not to go to the Cross but if He should Stay another year and continue His ministry to lost sheep of the House of Israel. This time He was not given another year of ministry and He knew what was in front of Him, thus already shedding blood over what He must endure for the sin of the world.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.


In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/9 22:04Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Christinyou's

Quote:
In seeing His own suffering on the Cross which He already had said this was going to happen to the Apostles. He was not asking not to go to the Cross but if He should Stay another year and continue His ministry to lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Ingenious but erroneous. However I was not asking for an explination of the Luke passage but an explanation of the Luke passage from someone who claims there is only one person and hence one will in the godhead. This passage plainly identifies and distinguishes two wills.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/12/10 3:30Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
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 Re:

One Will Three Persons'. Three Persons One God.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Same with this scripture.

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

The question in debate was not about his being united with the Father in plan and counsel, but in power. He affirmed that he was able to rescue and keep his people from all enemies, or that he had power superior to men and devils--that is, that he had supreme power over all creation. He affirmed the same of his Father. In this, therefore, they were united. But this was an attribute only of God, and they thus understood him as claiming equality to God in regard to omnipotence.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/10 13:02Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
One Will Three Persons'. Three Persons One God.

How then, "not my will but thine be done"? Is not 'will' a vital part of personhood?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/12/10 13:05Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

oops. sorry, hit the submit button twice!


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Ron Bailey

 2005/12/10 13:05Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
Ca.

 Re:

Of course it was not His will, independent of the Father, but the Fathers' also. The Father and He are One. This is just another proof of this One God In Three Persons.


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Phillip

 2005/12/10 13:18Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Of course it was not His will, independent of the Father, but the Fathers' also. The Father and He are One. This is just another proof of this One God In Three Persons.

His 'will' was never 'independent' of the Father; that was the whole point. If you are saying that the godhead is always 'one in will' I have no issues, but if you are saying there is only one point of volition within the Godhead you are moving in the same direction as 'beenblake' in his assertion that the Father, Son and Spirit are not 'persons' but one 'person'.

I repeat that, in my thinking, personal volition is an essential attribute of personhood.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/12/11 4:23Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3694
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: If you are saying that the godhead is always 'one in will' I have no issues,

How can it be any other way? People say One God Three Persons'. Then try to separate Them. A finite mind cannot understand the things of God or the kingdom. The Holy Spirit being God with a title of Holy Spirit to do the work of God by the Holy Spirit independent in us for our understanding of how God works is still God in three Persons' but One God. Their Will is the same will. We are body, soul, and spirit but one person and each works different but not independent. Body, the house, Soul, the mind, and spirit is new birth now The Spirit of Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/11 13:33Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Their Will is the same will. We are body, soul, and spirit but one person and each works different but not independent.

So are you saying that Christ did not have a 'will' of his own and that his choice of incarnation was not his own personal choice? Was Christ's submission the 'decision' of the Godhead or the 'choice' of the Son?

Quote:
We are body, soul, and spirit but one person and each works different but not independent. Body, the house, Soul, the mind, and spirit is new birth now The Spirit of Christ.

Does this mean that you think that new birth substitutes Christ's spirit for our own spirit?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/12/11 14:19Profile
beenblake
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Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Philologos,

Quote:
I am saying no such thing, and would prefer that you didn't put words into my mouth. quote]

I apologize. I was not meaning to put words in your mouth. When I said "you" in my original post, it was meant to be a general pronoun and not a person specific pronoun. It did not mean specifically "you", but "you" as in anybody.

I can see however, how you would think that I was meaning "you" specifically, so in the future, I try to find another way of stating things.

In love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2005/12/11 19:48Profile





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