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Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Newly elected Iran President says Israel should be wiped out

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad calls nation (Israel) a 'blot': This is why the Islamic state must not get nukes, the White House says

TEHRAN, Iran - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared Wednesday that Israel is a ''disgraceful blot'' that should be ''wiped off the map'' - fiery words that Washington said underscores its concern over Iran's nuclear program.

Ahmadinejad's speech to thousands of students at a ''World without Zionism'' conference set a hard-line foreign policy course sharply at odds with that of his moderate predecessor, echoing the sentiments of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution.
The United States said Ahmadinejad's remarks show that Washington's fears about Iran's nuclear program are accurate.

[url=http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3155317?rss]Full article[/url]

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1257857&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312]Arab nations remain silent[/url]

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051027/wl_mideast_afp/mideastiranisrael_051027115802]Israel steps up demands for UN to expel Iran[/url]


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Mike Compton

 2005/10/27 22:49Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: Newly elected Iran President says Israel should be wiped out

Quote:
JERUSALEM (AFP) - Israel intensified demands for Tehran to be expelled from the United Nations amid an international outcry over a call by Iran's president for the Jewish state to be wiped off the map.


Brothers and Sisters these are crucial times, we need to be in pray for Israel. What to say about a religion that condemns the desire to elimate a whole nation of people, is islam (iran) better then hitler?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/10/27 22:56Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Do I dare step into these troubled waters?

I am certainly not supporting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad here but I think we need to listen to what is being said. Folks put together Iran's determiniation to be a nuclear power and this kind of rhetoric and make conclusions which are just as inflammatory as Ahmadinejad' speeches.

Ahmadinejad is anti-zionist. That means he is opposed to what the United Nations did in establishing an Israeli sovereign state. Israel, as a nation state, was 'put on the map' by a political process. Is it conceivable, theoreticaly, that the 'nation state' could be 'wiped off the map' by a political process? It may be significant that Ahmadinejad spoke of 'wiping Israel off the map' rather than of 'wiping out Israel', as posted above.

There are those who hold the view of a 'Greater Israel' which believes that the nation state of Israel should push out its borders to the limits established by [url=http://www.all-creatures.org/sermons98/map-05.html]King David[/url]. That would take it right into the heart of Syria. It is hardly surprising that her neighbours become nervous as such a possibility. It is also verses such as...“In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:” (Gen. 15:18, KJVS)...which fuel some of this fear. Have a look at the implications of this on a [url=http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.bible.ca/maps/]map.[/url] and then find the "Successive World Kingdoms: Persia, Babylon, Assyria 640-500 BC" map.

Is Ahmadinejad dangerous? yes, of course and needs to be watched but it needs to be remembered too that it is 'Zionism', as a territorial expansion policy, that has been at the heart of the Middle East contoversy rather than 'anti-semitisim'. Traditionally, Islam and Judaism have been much more able to co-exist that Christendom and Judaism. ([u]Please[/u] note that I said 'Christendom' NOT 'Christianity'; the two are quite different)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/10/28 6:08Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Prayer for Iran

Quote:
It may be significant that Ahmadinejad spoke of 'wiping Israel off the map' rather than of 'wiping out Israel', as posted above.



I agree, it is well worth noting that my version of the headline unwittingly made Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sound like he was wanting genocide rather then elimination of a state.
Quote:
Traditionally, Islam and Judaism have been much more able to co-exist that Christendom and Judaism.



I'm reading a book called Constantines Sword (James Carrol) that takes a hard look at Christendoms sorry treatment of Jews...it's an unpleasant but informative read. Perhaps because the author is Catholic, he doesn't make as clean a distinction between Christendom and Christianity as I might.

I don't know if you were angling this direction Ron, but for me the scariest part of this scenario isn't Ahmadinejad, but Western reaction to him...For me, his rhetoric doesn't make me concerned about what Iran might do in the region...but of what we might do the region.

Although I've never considered Islam to be a "live and let live" kind of religion, (despite what political correctness insists) I feel a real need to pray for Iran. My prayers are not for them only...I need prayer as well so that I can see the mideast through the eyes of Jesus and not through the eerie green nightvision lens of American military policy.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/10/28 7:17Profile
Eli_Barnabas
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Joined: 2005/2/16
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 Re:

I wouldn't be too sure.

[u]Psalm 83[/u]
[i]"O God, do not keep silence; do not hold your peace or be still, O God! [b]For behold, your enemies make an uproar; those who hate you have raised their heads. They lay crafty plans against your people; they consult together against your treasured ones. They say, "Come, let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more!" For they conspire with one accord; against you they make a covenant-- the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal and Ammon and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre; Asshur also has joined them; they are the strong arm of the children of Lot. Selah.[/b] Do to them as you did to Midian, as to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon, who were destroyed at En-dor, who became dung for the ground. Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna, who said, [b]"Let us take possession for ourselves of the pastures of God."[/b] O my God, make them like whirling dust, like chaff before the wind. As fire consumes the forest, as the flame sets the mountains ablaze, so may you pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your hurricane!Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek your name, O LORD. Let them be put to shame and dismayed forever; let them perish in disgrace, that they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth."[/i]

I recently spoke with a Canadian muslim and in the conversation he said, "I don't hate Jews... I hate Israelis. They should all be killed." And he was dead serious. Don't be deceived.

In Christ,
-Eli


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Eli Brayley

 2005/10/28 10:50Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
I recently spoke with a Canadian muslim and in the conversation he said, "I don't hate Jews... I hate Israelis. They should all be killed." And he was dead serious. Don't be deceived.

This was the point that I was making. In one sense Islam's quarrel is not with Judaism as a religion but with the Israeli nation state and its aspirations. The problem is that Isreali-ness and Islam are both nations which have 'territory' at their heart. The Muslim cannot technically concede territory. If an area which has been Muslim is conquered the whole Muslim world is under a debt to 'liberate it'. This is the dilema over Iraq.

The current Iraq situation is the Palestine-Israel scenario all over again. I am not blaming the politicians in this, I am just trying to understand an entirely different mind-set. There are Israeli's of course who have the same problem that 'religiously; they cannot 'concede' territory. To do so is 'sin'. The dilema is that for the Muslim to leave the territory which was once Muslim under non-Muslim control is also 'sin'.

Your Canadian Muslim was stating a doctrinal truism for Islam, as I understand it. The quarrel is not with Judaism but with Zionist-Israelis. I am not passing judgement here either, just trying to understand what is happening.

As regards, MC's comment, I am often distressed at the way the media are constantly on the hunt for 'breaking news'; the more outrageous the better. The consequence is that inflammatory interpretations are put on statements because it is more interesting news when a confrontation is scented. I grow increasing suspicious of government 'spin'. Every new detail is scanned as another prospective missile in the conflict. MC, I do share an underlying anxiety that those who say 'something must be done' may decide that they are the ones to do it.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/10/28 12:07Profile
Smokey
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Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re: comments

Verrrrrrrrry interesting..
Can anyone here document a single case when the islamic world petitioned the UN to "politically" wipe Isreal off the earth?????????

Things are really getting wierd here. Greg :-(


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Greg

 2005/10/28 12:55Profile
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Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Not getting weird- do you guys know the history of Islam? It's a religion founded in blood.

A good example- you know the little red caps that shriners wear? They're called fezzes. Well, fezzes were created when muslims sacked the city of fez, slaughtering christians until the streets ran red with blood. The participating muslims dipped their hats in the blood to wear as a badge of honor, called a fez.

The whole reason that we are at war right now is beacuse of the muslim "jihad", or battle against "evil", namely, those who aren't muslim, or who don't live, eat, and dress like middle eastern culture would warrant.

I don't mean to sound bitter, but I guess I am. Frankly, it's a disgusting relition that detracts from the glory of the Lord. So many are deceived, and willing to die for a false hope.
Something to pray about.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/10/28 13:39Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

In the interests of historical accuracy all Arab states opposed the petition of Palestine in 1947. There is an interesting and informative article [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan]here.[/url] This is the record of the original voting.The 33 countries that voted in favor of UN Resolution 181: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belarus, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine, South Africa, USSR, USA, Uruguay, Venezuela.

The 13 countries that voted against UN Resolution 181: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

The ten countries that abstained: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/10/28 13:44Profile
markm
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Joined: 2004/11/4
Posts: 46


 Re:

I was listening to the Brother Andrew sermons on this site ([url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=38]link[/url]) and this quote jumped out at me concerning the Russians rolling through Poland: "If we do not go to the heathen with the Gospel they will come to us, as occupation armies."

I'm compelled to post it, but I don't fully understand the implications of saying such a thing in a thread about Islam. All I know is that many devoutly religious people are living under a large burden of legalistic guilt and they are craving a freedom only the Gospel can bring.

At what lengths will God go to make sure that those who seek Him will find Him? Is the only way to prevent a physical war to do a preemptive spiritual stike?

 2005/10/28 20:21Profile





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