Dear rookie,I hope you don't mind me adding an observation.
My understanding of Genesis 6 is that the 'sons of God' spoken of are indeed speaking of faithful men who were like Abel, Seth, Enoch, etc.
_________________Blake Kidney
I'm sorry I have not been able to read the last page of this thread, but I have three further comments, much in line with my previous post.1) Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection [u]they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but [b]are as the angels of God[/b] in heaven[/u]. The fall of angels cannot have conferred on them the power of procreation. Why would God do that?2) We still have giants on the earth. They may be rare, but they have to be held in context with the smallness of some others. Before the Flood, the coldness on earth which (later) helped to make people smaller, did not exist. This would have supported 'largeness'.Historically, some completely perfect humans were only 3 - 4 feet tall - and still are today. This makes a person who is over 7'6" or even over 8 feet tall, [i]very[/i] much a giant. (The 'definition' nowadays is 6'3" or over). People are still being born with 6 fingers and toes. I was at school with someone like this. These days tho, to avoid their future embarrassment by such a variation, at an early age, the 6th digit on each hand and foot which most readily offers itself as 'odd' is removed, so the rest of the developmental years take up the space and minimise the visible scarring from the surgery.My point is, then (Gen 6) and now, these are genetic rather than spiritual variations in normality, which could easily have been passed down through Noah.3) The spirits referred to in Peter's writings, could be those whom Jesus led captive after His victory on the cross, particularly those capable of holding people in bondage all their lives through fear of death. (Heb 2:14 - 16)Psalms 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell [among them]. {for men: Heb. in the man} Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. It may be this is why demon possession may seem to be quite muted in our societies now, especially the Christianised ones, where love in a measure militates against fear.I believe we are in denial if we imagine that the sort of extreme violence which caused God to send the Flood, does not go on in a measure where it can unchecked, even today.
Dear dorcas,
My point is, then (Gen 6) and now, these are genetic rather than spiritual variations in normality, which could easily have been passed down through Noah.
Brother Ron,What is the equivalent word for Nephilim in the Septuagint?In ChristJeff
_________________Jeff Marshalek
What is the equivalent word for Nephilim in the Septuagint?
_________________Ron Bailey
In the Septuagint the greek word 05303 for Nephilim is different. In the Greek the word is "Husterema" which means, "deficiency, that which is lacking, of those things which are to be filled up." So there seems to be more to this idea of giants for the Hebrew scholars of the 3rd century BC chose to translate into Greek "husterema" as a means to convey what the Nephilim were, or were not. Now with this, what really might be going on here in Genesis 6? If the Nephilim are lacking something, or there is a lack of them, what does that say as to fullfilling the need of the daughters of men?In ChristJeff
In the Septuagint the greek word 05303 for Nephilim is different. In the Greek the word is "Husterema" which means, "deficiency, that which is lacking, of those things which are to be filled up."
Br. Ron,You are right, I made the mistake that you pointed out here. I was using the Blue Letter Bible site for the info. However, once seeing where I went wrong, I also noticed where you spoke of the idea of "fallen."The root word in Hebrew is Strongs number 05307. The word is "Naphal." The meaning of this word connotes, the idea of fallen, or fail. So again, there seems to be something more to be gleaned. Also I thought that the Nephilim were the result of the sons of God going into the daughters of men. But now looking at the verse more carefully, that doesn't seem to support that notion. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The nephilim existed before the sons of God came into the daughters of men. What do you think?In ChristJeff
rookie wrote:Also I thought that the Nephilim were the result of the sons of God going into the daughters of men. But now looking at the verse more carefully, that doesn't seem to support that notion. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The nephilim existed before the sons of God came into the daughters of men.
Deuteronomy 2:9-12 (KJV)9 And the LORD said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because [b]I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession[/b].10 The [b]Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and [u]tall, as the Anakims[/u][/b];11 Which also were [b]accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims[/b].12 The Horims also dwelt in Seir beforetime; but the children of Esau succeeded them, when they had destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their stead; as Israel did unto the land of his possession, which the LORD gave unto them.
_________________Aaron Ireland
We have so much confusion today on this issue. Who are the Sons of God?Adam was referred to as the Son of God in the New Testament.The 1897 Eastons Bible Dictionary has this to say about the issue. Topics: Son of God Text: The plural, "sons of God," is used (Gen. 6:2, 4) to denote the pious descendants of Seth. In Job 1:6; 38:7 this name is applied to the angels. Hosea uses the phrase (1:10) to designate the gracious relation in which men stand to God. In the New Testament this phrase frequently denotes the relation into which we (Christian believers) are brought to God by adoption (Rom. 8:14, 19; 2 Cor. 6:18; Gal. 4:5, 6; Phil. 2:15; 1 John 3:1, 2). It occurs thirty-seven times in the New Testament as the distinctive title of our Saviour. He does not bear this title in consequence of his miraculous birth, nor of his incarnation, his resurrection, and exaltation to the Father's right hand. This is a title of nature and not of office. The sonship of Christ denotes his equality with the Father. To call Christ the Son of God is to assert his true and proper divinity. The second Person of the Trinity, because of his eternal relation to the first Person, is the Son of God. He is the Son of God as to his divine nature, while as to his human nature he is the Son of David (Rom. 1:3, 4. Comp. Gal. 4:4; John 1:1-14; 5:18-25; 10:30-38, which prove that Christ was the Son of God before his incarnation, and that his claim to this title is a claim of equality with God). When used with reference to creatures, whether men or angels, this word is always in the plural. In the singular it is always used of the second Person of the Trinity, with the single exception of Luke 3:38, where it is used of Adam. xxxxxIn Hosea Chapter 1:10 The Jews, God's chosen people, are referred to as [u][i][b]God's sons [/b][/i][/u]([u][i][b]sons of the living God[/b][/i][/u]): 10. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, YE ARE THE [u][i][b]SONS OF THE LIVING GOD[/b][/i][/u]New TestamentJohn 1:12 " 12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u], even to them that believe on his name:"Romans 8:14 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u].Romans 8:199. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u].Phil 2:13-1513. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15. That ye may be blameless and harmless, the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u], without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u]: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2. Beloved, now are we the [u][i][b]sons of God[/b][/i][/u], and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxIt seems from the examples found in Scripture that the term "Sons of God" in the Book of Job actually refers to Angels (the good ones). A distinction is actually made between them, and Satan, who is a fallen Angel and would be hardly considered a Son of God anymore:Job 1:6-7 6. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. 7. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.What this Scripture teaches me is that Satan still has access to Heaven, and is still subservient to his maker, God Almighty.God bless,Stever :-)
