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paula4jc
Member



Joined: 2005/1/8
Posts: 132


 Re:

Last year I read a speech of President Hugo Chavez, he professes to have a personal relationship with Christ. Pat Roberson, a profess Christian calling for the assassination of another Christian.

Wickedness has indeed abound that the love of many has become wax cold. Come Lord Jesus come!

[url=www.paula4jc.com]www.paula4jc.com[/url]


_________________
Paula

 2005/8/28 15:20Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi paula4jc...!

Quote:
"Last year I read a speech of President Hugo Chavez, he professes to have a personal relationship with Christ. Pat Roberson, a profess Christian calling for the assassination of another Christian."

As we all probably know, not everyone that claims to be a Christian truly knows Christ. The historical record of Hugo Chavez shows quite clearly that, while he may "[i]talk the talk[/i]", he definitely does not "[i]walk the walk[/i]" of being a true Christian. In fact, after having studied him intensely during a [i]Latin American Politics[/i] graduate course last year, I am almost convinced that Chavez is [u]mentally[/u] unstable. He has quite a few "issues" (including connections with the Columbian drug trade, supporters of an athiestic communist/dictatorship, and international terrorism) that are creating many problems in the region, his relationship with the United States, and notable intolerance for Christianity.

Now, I do [u]not[/u] agree with Pat Robertson's comments concerning assassignation. Robertson's justification for an assassignation in order to "save lives and money" sounds alot like terrorists who bomb abortion clinics in order to prevent abortion. Of course, abortion is a disgusting act of sinful desperation. But [i]murder is not an option[/i]. Both are sin.

I urge everyone to pray for believers in Venezuela (and other latin american countries). The persecution for authentic Christians is quite intense and seldom reported.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2005/8/28 19:52Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Jesus....help us please.

Quote:
"It's one thing to have a [biblically inspired] position on one or two issues," said Greene, 26, who was wearing a wristband printed with the slogan "Jesus Is My Homie." "This class has you look deeper. It gives you an intellectual consistency."



That is hilarious! :-? [i]consistency[/i]?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/8/28 20:10Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:




RESPOND TO EDITOR E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY FOXFAN CENTRAL

Raw Data: Statement by Pat Robertson
Wednesday, August 24, 2005 STORIES

•Robertson Apologizes for Chavez Remark

The following is a statement released on Wednesday by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson in the wake of his controversial statements made on Monday regarding Venzuelan president Hugo Chavez:

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., August 24, 2005--I want to take this opportunity to clarify remarks made on the Monday, August 22nd edition of The 700 Club where I adlibbed a comment following a very brilliant analysis by Dale Hurd of the danger that the United States faces from the out-of-control dictator of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez. In this story, Col. Chavez repeatedly claimed that Americans were "trying to assassinate him

."In my frustration that the U.S. and the world community are ignoring this threat, I said the following:

Thanks, Dale. If you look back just a few years, there was a popular coup that overthrew him; and what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing; and as a result, within about 48 hours, that coup was broken, Chavez was back in power. But we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger, and this is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, and we have other doctrines that we have announced, and without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another 200-billion-dollar war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.

Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him.

Col. Chavez has found common cause with terrorists such as the noted assassin Carlos the Jackal, has visited Iran reportedly to gain access to nuclear technology, and has referred to Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro as his comrades. Col. Chavez also intends to fund the violent overthrow of democratically elected governments throughout South America, beginning with neighboring Colombia.

As I report the news daily from around the world, I am acutely conscious of the fact that our nation is at war. Not only are there active wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but there is a war of terror being waged against civilized nations throughout the world.

We are in the midst of a war that is draining vast amounts of our treasure and is costing the blood of our armed forces. I am a person who believes in peace, but not peace at any price. However, I said before the war in Iraq began that the wisest course would be to wage war against Saddam Hussein, not the whole nation of Iraq. When faced with the threat of a comparable dictator in our own hemisphere, would it not be wiser to wage war against one person rather than finding ourselves down the road locked in a bitter struggle with a whole nation?

The brilliant Protestant theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who lived under the hellish conditions of Nazi Germany, is reported to have said:

"If I see a madman driving a car into a group of innocent bystanders, then I can't, as a Christian, simply wait for the catastrophe and then comfort the wounded and bury the dead. I must try to wrestle the steering wheel out of the hands of the driver.

"On the strength of this reasoning, Bonhoeffer decided to lend his support to those in Germany who had joined together in an attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler. Bonnhoffer was imprisoned and killed by the Nazis, but his example deserves our respect and consideration today.

There are many who disagree with my comments, and I respect their opinions. There are others who think that stopping a dictator is the appropriate course of action. In any event, the incredible publicity surrounding my remarks has focused our government's attention on a growing problem which has been largely ignored.

…………………………………………………………………………………………….

This was on Fox news on Sunday Evening.

Early in my Christian walk, I had to sort out a lot of my thinking. One of the things that needed sorted out was whether it was wrong to fight in a war or even whether it was wrong for a police officer to shoot someone as a Christian officer doing his duty. Eventually I came to believe that it is ok to be in a war and it is ok to shoot a criminal if he is a threat that can't be stopped any other way.

What led me to conclude this was a story of a woman being beaten outside of an apartment while many people inside heard her screams and did nothing. My conclusion is that as a Christian you can't just stand by and let evil take over. Apparently, this is what Mr. Bonnhoffer was saying and it is very similar to what John Knox was saying. It is also what the founding fathers were saying when they risked there lives to revolt against King George.

In Christ,
GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2005/8/29 0:27Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
One of the things that needed sorted out was whether it was wrong to fight in a war or even whether it was wrong for a police officer to shoot someone as a Christian officer doing his duty. Eventually I came to believe that it is ok to be in a war and it is ok to shoot a criminal if he is a threat that can't be stopped any other way.



I believe that the police and the courts have the authority and clear conscience to use force to keep civil order. Paul did not seem to apologize when he said...
"Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; for it is God's servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer."

So the right of the governement to execute wrath upon it's citizens who do wrong is fairly established here. The question that is not explicity answered in this particular scripture: does God give one governement the right to execute wrath upon another government?

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/8/29 1:02Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Gary wrote:

Quote:
It is also what the founding fathers were saying when they risked there lives to revolt against King George.



Wasn't King George and the nation of England a Christian nation?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 10:53Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Mike wrote:

Quote:
The question that is not explicity answered in this particular scripture: does God give one governement the right to execute wrath upon another government?



James 1:19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

Many times the nation that is used by God to destroy another, according to His judgement, believes that they are righteous. Yet what does Scripture say?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 11:00Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


It's my understanding that John Knox was the first of the leaders of the reformation to take a stand that it is the right of the people to resist an evil government. This had to be the thought of the founding fathers of our country. It was apparently thought by the founding fathers that King George was an evil tyrant.

In John Knoxe's time, there had been a church state government run by the Roman Catholic Church. The Inquisition had been in full swing and many reformers had been murdered. For a season there was a Protestant in control of Scotland then when that person was gone there was another Roman Catholic set up as queen. John faced her down and was willing to kill her if it had to be, taking the position that it is the right of a Christian to resist evil. This is my limited understanding of that situation and this is also the position that I personally believe is right.

While I don't think we should be building and empire, I don't think we should allow an evil people to build one either.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/8/29 12:15Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

People like John Knox and King James who was responsible for commissioning the King James Bible lived in the 1500's.

John and Charles Wesley, and George Whitefield (sp?) came to America as missionaries during the 1700's.

What did the Founding Fathers consider evil that waranted revolt against the government they were subjected to?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 12:36Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

In terms of Hugo Chavez, he was elected by large majority twice in democratically. In a recent recall election, former President Jimmy Carter monitored the recall and he verfied that the recall vote was properly carried out. So it is the will of the people that Chavez remains president of Venezuela.

Here is a list of some of the things he has done for his nation's people,

Mission Robinson—teaching more than 1.3 million people to read and write in the space of 16 months, a world record in this field




Mission Ribas—secondary education for just over 1 million people so far, who were denied this basic human right during the 4th Republic




Mission Barrio Adentro Into the Neighborhood—to provide free primary health care for more than 10 million people up to now, and who did not have access to health care in the past – unless they paid for it




Mission Simoncito—care and education for pregnant mothers and their children from gestation to kindergarten, to ensure a healthy start to life




Bolivarian Schools—integral schooling including free health care and meals, with the objective of inculcating patriotic, humanitarian values in the upcoming generations.


On the other hand his government controls the oil industry that the US buy 59% of the Venezuelan oil. The US has a history of overthrowing democratically elected leaders when they seek to maintain control of their own resources, and reject foreign encroachment on what God has given them,

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 13:07Profile





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