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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: personally speaking

Quote:
I would rather chose FAT christians! F - faithful A - availiable T - teachable. sorry guys, just my attempt at being humorous



“Those that be planted in the house of the LORD shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing;” (Psa. 92:13-14, KJVS)

“And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” (Is. 58:11, KJVS).

;-) ;-) I reckon, if I have 'fat bones' there's little hope for that trim figure. ;-) ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/8/12 4:14Profile









 Re:

I have a friend who eats more than I have ever seen anyone eat before. The other day when we were out for lunch he ordered 3 meals and ate them all in the space of time that I had eaten 1! He reckons though that he is actually not full up! He also got refused any more meat at an 'eat as much as you like' fondue place as him and his 2 friends had already gone through 10 trays of meat!(I don't think the trays could have been that big though. Still, you get chips with them as well :-D) He maintains that he is not full up though and is not really overweight. I guess it is not the amount that we eat but the importance we put on what we eat maybe and whether we regularly eat until we are overfull. I don't think there is anything wrong with enjoying food though. When I go on holiday that is one of the things I enjoy the most!

 2005/8/12 4:59
AgapeLove81
Member



Joined: 2005/8/4
Posts: 47
Albany, GA

 Re:

Thank you philologos for finding those verses for us. As I said in my last post I am sensitive about my weight, but at least I know that some where in my book of knowledge (my bible) it talks about being a "healthy" size.


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Chrissy

 2005/8/12 8:33Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Forgive me here I am trying to summarize all this. Is it safe to say that we know very little about a person based solely on their outward appearance?

I thought I would add that my Dad was telling me yesterday that when he goes to the cardiologist that 2/3's of the people he sees there are his size (fairly thin). It has totally changed his perception that only heavy people have heart attacks.

In retrospect I have also found that many people in the nursing homes we attend are heavy also and some of them are in their 90's. Its when they loose all their weight that they often start going down hill. I don't know about you, but I think it to be good to have some 'reserve' in case I was to get so ill I could not eat.

Another point I think interesting is that I have been very skinny and have been a lttle heavier and can say that persecution comes no matter what size you are. "Strong wind comes up gonna carry you off boy!" or "You look like a bean pole."

If there is one thing we need liberty from in this life it is the opinions of men.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/12 8:44Profile
mary0418
Member



Joined: 2005/8/4
Posts: 33


 Re:

I am really tired of everyone thinking it is OK to be obese. Why in the world would anyone think that it is OK? Everyone is SOOO sensitive about this subject. Let's think of why this is true...could it be that the majority of you are guilty of obesity????
Honestly, do you really want to stand before Jesus on the day of Judgement with a big, fat, unhealthy body? And those of you who are obese because of medicine you are taking- I'm not talking about you! Jesus surely know those of you who are obese not from your own doing.
But those of you who lack self control and self discipline, I'm telling you out of pure Christian love- stop sinning! Jesus can strengthen you to help you fight this battle! It is winnable!
Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit and if you truly are filled with the Holy Spirit you will be able to excercise self-control.

Some people have to fight the battle of viewing pornography. It is desperatly hard for them to not pick up those magazines or check out those web sites- they have to fight and pray for strenghth every day. Well, the same goes for overeating. It is a battle. It is a sinful behavior that leads to having an unholy temple. And we all claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit- we have to have a holy temple. We MUST take care of what God gave us. We will be held accountable of everything God has given us. My only desire is to exhort you all to take care of your temple. Repent! turn from your sin and turn to God.
You can try to excuse it all you want. You may say that well, we aren't warned about obesity in the Bible, so it must not be a sin.
Well, being addicted to drugs is also not in the Bible. Is that not a sin? Would you not call a drug addict a sinner? Please, we need to admit that we are all unworthy of God's grace. I have also fought with my weight. But I work to take care of my body. And no, I am not obsessed with it. I do not have a fabulously fit body, but I am also not obese. Let's stop being so carnal about this. Stop trying to make excuses for yourself. I stopped doing it and I have never felt so free in my life. I can repent and be cleansed! I die to sin and to this world- Jesus has set me free!!!!Sin has no power over me any more! We are suppossed to die to our fleshly desires-and that includes overeating which causes obesity!
I wish only the best for you all and wish you would repent and be reconciled to God.

Mary0418


_________________
Mary Beth Ersig

 2005/8/12 13:34Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Mary,

Quote:
I am really tired of everyone thinking it is OK to be obese. Why in the world would anyone think that it is OK? Everyone is SOOO sensitive about this subject. Let's think of why this is true...could it be that the majority of you are guilty of obesity????



Personally I do not fit that category of being obese. Nor do I assert that it 'OK' to be obese. But by virtue of the question, is anyone 'quilty' here of anorexia nervousa? What I am saying is that a person overweight may not necessarily be living in excess compared to a 'skinny' person. It is like the pregnant out-of-wedlock teen. Do you think that girl is any guiltier than the one who didn't get caught? A small belly does not indicate innocence of fornication.



Quote:
Honestly, do you really want to stand before Jesus on the day of Judgement with a big, fat, unhealthy body? And those of you who are obese because of medicine you are taking- I'm not talking about you! Jesus surely know those of you who are obese not from your own doing.



No, I plan to stand before Him in my glorified body. I don't know exactly what that will look like, but I am pretty sure from there we head to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.


Quote:
But those of you who lack self control and self discipline, I'm telling you out of pure Christian love- stop sinning! Jesus can strengthen you to help you fight this battle! It is winnable!
Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit and if you truly are filled with the Holy Spirit you will be able to excercise self-control.



This is true, but it assumes that we have our ducks in a row in other areas of our lives with which we can safely assume that we can make a judgment on others when we are in fact living with glaring elements of of our lack of self-discipline. The first point of control is the tongue. The things that go into a man cannot defile him- it is that which comes out.


Quote:
Some people have to fight the battle of viewing pornography. It is desperatly hard for them to not pick up those magazines or check out those web sites- they have to fight and pray for strenghth every day. Well, the same goes for overeating. It is a battle. It is a sinful behavior that leads to having an unholy temple



I agree here with most of this except for the end part. I am having a hard time thinking that overeating defiles the Temple. Pornography would because the pictures enter into our chambers of images.

Quote:
And we all claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit- we have to have a holy temple. We MUST take care of what God gave us. We will be held accountable of everything God has given us. My only desire is to exhort you all to take care of your temple. Repent! turn from your sin and turn to God.



Wow. Thats a powerful word of repentance. I understand where you are coming from and am quite sure Finney and others would take this line. However, do we condemn a person for their 'size' or for the sheer volume of food they eat. What about the 'type' of food? What about sugar and salt? What about once we get this in order- do we call a word of repentance on caffeine? No more cokes and coffee! It was many years ago that a dear old lady was seen drinking a cup of hot water with sugar and creamer in it. What are you doing momma?, she was asked. I have given up coffee. Why is that? The preacher said it was a sin. And in so doing- he effected her conscience.

Quote:
You can try to excuse it all you want. You may say that well, we aren't warned about obesity in the Bible, so it must not be a sin. Well, being addicted to drugs is also not in the Bible. Is that not a sin? Would you not call a drug addict a sinner?



The only way I could bring this word is if I knew I had the flesh totally in subjection. I mean [u]totally[/u]. Drugs are in the bible it is the Greek work pharmakia- translated sorcery in the Revelation. "Spell binding potients (sp?)". That is definately a sin. But when we say overeating; when is when ? When I eat a piece of candy? I didn't need that for 'fuel.' No more Ice Cream? No more cake or pies? I am with you on the overeating as a sin part, but [u]where do we draw the line[/u].


Quote:
have also fought with my weight. But I work to take care of my body. And no, I am not obsessed with it. I do not have a fabulously fit body, but I am also not obese. Let's stop being so carnal about this. Stop trying to make excuses for yourself. I stopped doing it and I have never felt so free in my life. I can repent and be cleansed! I die to sin and to this world- Jesus has set me free!!!!Sin has no power over me any more! We are suppossed to die to our fleshly desires-and that includes overeating which causes obesity!
I wish only the best for you all and wish you would repent and be reconciled to God.



This statement is 90% good corn. The problem is to assume that God has forsaken these folks just because they fit the category of obese. That I can not believe.


God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/12 14:32Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

That was a good response Robert. Personally I think much of what we see in over weight people as well as many illnesses is due to the way our meats are raised and processed, as well as some of our foods. Lets face it, they grow up a calf with drugs to help it bulk up so they can make more per pound at market. Then the FDA says that the meat is steroid free? I don't believe it! We use genetics to ultar corn as well as most of our fruits and veggys, to help fight against insects or to make them capable or growing in an environment they normally can't survive in. We have beef and other animals growing 3 to 4 times faster than they would naturally because of drug enhancements and somehow we believe that that isn't in our meats? Same with plant life.


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/8/13 11:07Profile









 Re: Obese Christians - how we get our weight

Bro Daryl,

These are very valid points. I know farmers, (married to each other), one with a degree in Agriculture who volunteered in Africa for 3 years and one, the lady, with a degree in Biology. Both were brought up on farms and now run an organic farm. The lady won't eat any meat unless she KNOWS how it has been reared. My experience of organic meat in the UK is that it has more than one difference in quality - not just flavour - texture, and, after eating non-organically produced meat, there is a definite feeling that one's body is dealing with more than food... all that stuff which has not been cleared from the animal's system, as you said. There is also a lot of water in most meats, deliberatly encouraged, so it weighs more than it's worth.

Right at the beginning of this thread, ravin made a post alluding to the link with (?child) abuse and excessive weight. I heard (on the radio) a report of research which has been done in the US, linking excessive weight to raised cortisol (a stress response) in 50% of the cohort. There is a definite link between eating and abuse, because the body is forced to pull out energy reserves to cope with the physical and mental trauma; if the abuse is regular, the comensatory eating (which later in life may become 'comfort eating' because the effects of the abuse have not yet been addressed) becomes necessarily habitual. This trains the biochemistry, in much the same way as people who work out may have to alter what they eat and drink. It's exactly the same principle, except, it has a deep-seated cause, which cannot be switched on and off, in the manner one may decide to stop going to the gym.

The restrospective stats on childhood abuse mean this is something the churches should be much better at helping people to bring to the Lord, without judging the way their body works. We are joined in and by the Spirit, primarily, not by our outward appearance. I speak to myself very much in that last sentence, as I also find appearance more challenging than the worldly status of the saint. I think the Lord is speaking to me about the huge diversity of human beings, and that if they would, He would - save them all.

A brother who picks at his food, by comparison with many I know, quietly said something about 'the benefits of self-discipline', when refusing another helping of a very modest meal. It struck me at the time, when I was an energetic younger person who could eat much more than I need now, and still sticks with me, though I haven't mastered it like he had.

 2005/8/14 10:19
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re: The Heavyweights Are Christians

There are many points worth discussion in this article, but the weight issues applies to this thread.

The Heavyweights Are Christians

Ray Furr
02-06-02
They’ll know we are Christians by our love and by our bulging waistlines. And the larger the middle, the more likely you are to be pastor of a church.


Obesity is a growing epidemic claiming some 300,000 lives each year. Defined as being overweight by 20 percent or by 25 to 35 pounds, physicians agree that being too fat is hazardous to your health.

While the secular community is sounding the alarm over the evils of obesity, Christian churches have not gotten the message. Many don’t consider or don’t want to consider that over eating is a sin as is sexual promiscuity, murder and greed.

When it comes to the fattest of the fat, Christians weigh more than other religious groups and un-churched people, according to Kenneth Ferraro, a sociologist at the University of Purdue.

His analysis of data from two national surveys, published in the Review of Religious Research, showed that regardless of the religion, religious people tend weigh more than their nonreligious counterparts.

While his discovery applies to all major religions in the United States, American Jews, Muslims and Buddhists on average weigh less than American Christians.

States with a high rate of religious affiliation such as Mississippi, Michigan and Indiana also have higher rates of citizens who are overweight. Conversely, the more secular the state—Massachusetts, Hawaii and Colorado—the less its citizens weigh.

Among Christian denominations, Southern Baptists have the most overweight and obese members.

While there is little information on obesity in ministers, Ferraro’s data is similar to the results of a 1997 study conducted on ministers during the Southern Baptist Convention in Dallas. Of the 969 people surveyed, 60 percent of the ministers and their spouses were overweight which corresponded to the national average. More than 47 percent were obese—a rate similar to the national average. The difference was that those who were obese were very obese.

The problem lies not only with how much these ministers eat, but also the quality of the food they eat.

While only a small percentage eat breakfast, 61 percent reported they eat donuts and pastries—foods that are high in fat with little nutritional value. Forty-eight percent eat lunch in fast food restaurants at least twice a week. Seventy-five percent reported eating fried foods for dinner—their largest meal—four nights a week. Forty percent snack two or more times a day on cookies, chips and candy.

While alcohol and tobacco are out for Baptist preachers, coffee is definitely in with 25 percent drinking six or more cups per day.

Even though Baptists are noted for their covered dishes and fried chicken, job stress may be the major culprit. And, while Baptist ministers may hold the heavyweight title, other clergy may not be far behind. Stress requires ministers to eat whatever they can get whenever they can get it. People with high levels of stress tend to eat more.

Kate Harvey, executive director of the American Baptist Ministers Council, said clergy put exercise, weight control and other self-care matters on the back burner for more immediate issues. She noted that ministers are constantly faced with high stress loads like church conflicts, while serving in isolated areas where there are few support groups.

“Pastors are hounded by work pressures. If the church doesn’t grow, the finger gets pointed at the pastor,” Harvey said. “Low morale, the eroding position of the clergy in society and low compensation are more important. Some of them are barely making it on what the church pays them. ”

“I can only give you anecdotal information and I don’t have any data to back this up, but there does seem to be an inordinate amount of heart attacks and heart conditions among our clergy,” Harvey said.

Long work hours every week of the year takes its toll. John C. LaRue Jr., vice president of research and development for Christianity Today International, reported findings from a study he conducted that ministers are working long hours and working six days a week.

“Though Sundays tend to be long days for pastors, Wednesday is typically their longest day. Throughout the week, pastors spend four evenings in ministry activities and take four phone calls at home after 6 p.m.,” LaRue discovered.

“Forty percent of the pastors in our study said they are working more hours each week than they were five years ago. About 40 percent said they're working the same amount. And only 15 percent are working fewer hours than in 1992,” he reported. “Furthermore, 75 percent of the pastors who came to the pastorate from another career said they work more hours in ministry than they did in their former jobs.”

Long work hours seemed to be correlated with job security.

“Working more hours appears to be one way to increase job security. Pastors who work 50 hours or less each week are 35 percent more likely to be terminated,” LaRue said.

In a survey of Episcopal clergy in the United States, 38 percent of clergy identified burnout as the greatest danger to them and their families, 80 percent named isolation as the number one problem that they face and 80 percent said their occupation negatively affects their families.

The Episcopal Diocese of Eastern Newfoundland established a Clergy Wellness Commission in 1997 and reported their recommendations in June 1999. The Committee concluded that, “Ministry must be a mutual exercise, and we need to understand the stress that Christian Leadership places ordained clergy under."

Concerned over the large numbers of inactive priests, Episcopal Church officials have instituted a Web site and program for clergy wellness.

The Missouri Synod Lutherans have an entire department designated for health-related issues in the church and for clergy. The department provides printed and other resources to ministers.

The Fuller Institute of Church Growth Pastors Survey confirmed pastors’ concerns:

33 percent said that "Being in ministry is clearly a hazard to my family."

75 percent reported a significant crisis due to stress at least once in their ministry.

50 percent felt unable to meet the needs of the job.

90 percent felt they were not adequately trained to cope with the ministry demands placed upon them.

40 percent reported a serious conflict with a parishioner at least once a month.

70 percent of pastors do not have someone they would consider a close friend.

37 percent have been involved in inappropriate sexual behavior with someone in the church.

70 percent have a lower self-image after they've pastored than when they started.

Christian ministers may be heavier and less physically active than the general population, and it may be due to a lack of discipline or gluttony. However, the real culprit may be the stress of being in the Christian ministry.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/25 23:02Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Christisking,

Thanks for posting this article. Many points for prayer here. May the Lord help us be more charitable to our pastors and elders!

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/8/25 23:19Profile





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