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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
e banned sweets to the children in the orphanage because it encouraged sensual pleasure without meeting a basic human need. For the same reason he banned flowers from the garden of the orphanage and insisted they grow only vegetables.



As much as I admire Wesley and Finney I simply cannot take this route. I personally believe that this level of strictness has done more harm than good in my circles. I say that because the generations who grew up in the churches that knew no real pleasure (sit down, shut up, kids are to be seen not heard, no cake, no apples, etc.) responded to these personal convictions by opening the flood gates to frivolity and riot. It is the nature of man to go to extremes one way or the other.

The worst thing of all is that when ministers in olden days ran out of biblical means of 'breaking down' the congregations they resorted to preaching all manor of personal convictions. I see at the root of this the error of Oberlin Theology. O.T. simply cannot in the long run sustain a man. I almost ran aground myself early this year as I was in circles of conversation with folks radical in their zeal to discover sin to the point where they were probing and probing and probing for sin and unearthed my own personal 'Machpelah'. Imagine having to re-bury all that madness! It looked like a CSI crime scene with folk digging around in the bones looking for somewhat to put me away.

For those who are reading this that may be overweight fear not. I was a skinny guy eating 2 quarter pounders with cheese, large french fries, large coke, and a chocolate sundae just for lunch and weighed a mere 165 lbs at 24 years of age. I didn't feel like a glutton. Maybe I was. God never convicted me of overeating. Now I eat about 35% less than those days and weigh about 215 and workout regularly.

Again, I think we often [i]blurr[/i] [u]spirituality[/u] and [u]asceticism[/u]. This is the slippery slope to monasticism. Reading Finney's works he had made it a sin to salt your food for pleasure. God forbid we had eaten a chocolate ice cream with whip cream and sprinkles.

Quote:
For almost four years, Wesley's diet consisted mainly of potatoes, partly to improve his health, but also to save money. He said: "What I save from my own meat will feed another that else would have none."



This is wonderful in practice, but I have little patience for folk who would preach it without practice for mere piety sake. I am sure Wesley practiced it. What I mean is, a person should preach with their life first. My pastor has a saying, "[u]Live it[/u] as [b]hard[/b] as you [u]preach it[/u]." If I am in ministry 6 days a week and 52 weeks a year I do not expect that it shall become a doctrine either. At the end of the day it is just a matter of preaching against areas that we may have secured- since we see others who have not secured that area. I am 'here' so you should be 'here' also. Really, it is just immaturity talking.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/10 8:31Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Robert
Yes, although I am a fan of Wesley too I don't believe he was infallible. Not even 'I' am infallible... well, not all the time. :-D

'immaturity talking' ...and that perennial weed of legalism which equates correctness with righteousness.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/8/10 10:12Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Ron,

Are you aware of any discussions here on SI that deal with the differences between asceticism (harsh discipline) and genuine spirituality? I am afraid that there is some confusion here. There are lots of religions that are very 'disciplined' to do certain things a certain way at certain times and even practice extreme self-denial. But they are in no wise spiritual. Islam comes to mind immediately. Maybe I have a thought on the fringe and can't quite spit out what I am trying to say here. If Spirituality can be achieved by a host of disciplines we have essentially userped the role of the Holy Spirit and inserted a substitute. Do-it-yourself 'Christianity' is a bit removed from what I read in the New Testament. Those folks were fueled by the Holy Spirit that gave them the power to overcome the world, flesh, and the enemy. Yet I know also that thre is a discipline involved in 'discipleship', but what is the thrust of that discipline? Is it safe to say that a person full of the Holy Spirit will live disciplined lives or can the disciplined life lead to fulness? I don't think it can be both, but I see it as a good discussion point.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/10 10:50Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Robert
This might deserve a new thread I think. My dictionary defines 'ascetic' (pronounced a-set-ic for any who don't know the word) asnoun. a person who practises severe self-discipline and abstains from all forms of pleasure, esp. for religious or spiritual reasons.

adj. relating to or characteristic of ascetics or asceticism, abstaining from pleasureThere is an introduction in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascetic]wikipedia[/url] that might help too.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/8/10 11:04Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1804
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: How many of are meat in curries is Halal

I am just wondering whether how much food we have is actually offered to other gods!!
I am just interested if there is anyone knoledgeable on this subject.
Such as going down Asda! How do you know what are food has been offered to!!


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Dominic Shiells

 2005/8/10 11:09Profile
AgapeLove81
Member



Joined: 2005/8/4
Posts: 47
Albany, GA

 Re:

For all men that don't know; most women natually hold weight more, after having a baby. I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but I want to put my two cents worth in. Everyone has brought up great "words of wisdom" to say yes obesity is sin and no it is not sin.

My personal experience is this. And I am not making any excuses for myself. After I gave birth to my daughter I breast fed her for a yr. So I got used to eatting a certain amount to make up for the calories burned due to the milk production. After I stopped I was still used to eatting that certain amount so i gained a little weight (OK like 15 lbs). Up until 6 months ago I was on medication for depression and birth control pills. Both of with has warning signs about "may cause weight gain." I never over ate or ate a lot of junk food. But yet the weight still came on.

I have struggled with weight all my life. And to say that I am a sinner because I am not at my ideal weight and "obese" is one of the most narrow minded things anyone can say. I am very sensitive about my weight. I find it funny that for the most part it is the thin people that say that obesity is a sin. NOT EVERYONE THAT IS OBESE IS A GLUTTON AND NOT EVERY GLUTTON IS OBESE. That is just a fact of life. And gluttony is not only about food. If you watch too much tv you are a glutton. If you type on the computer ALL DAY you are a glutton. Anything that you do in excess of (except studing the word, praying or anything else God has called us to do) is gluttony. So obesity is not the sin, gluttony is.


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Chrissy

 2005/8/10 23:52Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1804
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: Self Acceptance

Mt 19:19 - Show ContextHonour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Joh 2:21 - Show ContextBut he spake of the temple of his body.

1Co 6:19 - Show ContextWhat? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Mt 6:25 - Show ContextTherefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


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Dominic Shiells

 2005/8/11 18:43Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 personally speaking

I would rather chose FAT christians! F - faithful A - availiable T - teachable. sorry guys, just my attempt at being humorous :-)


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D.Miller

 2005/8/11 22:17Profile









 Re: personally speaking

i have felt that this curse came on from God when we were separated from His Glory. I seriously believe that sex and food were not created in the capacity that they are abused in this day when God had originally planned it. Of what i know of myself and the mere ropes that these two things provide a fall in my christian walk, i know i always have to watch both. I seriously believe these two things were altered in our body when God's glory departed due to a sinful nature dwelling in us. i don't believe forexample that God created us for our hormones to rage at the time when we go from childhood to adolescence. now i might see a reason why God has decided to let it happen this way,but i don't see it being logical consistent if the intent of God in His creation was to have these hormonal imbalances to occur at those specific ages. (i hope I didn't put God in a box, if i did, please let me know(and i am serious about it))

 2005/8/11 22:49
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re: confused

who is my advocate with the Father? who is the accuser of the brethren? Micah 6;8 He has shown thee o man what is good, and what does the Lord REQUIRE of thee; to do justly, to love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God.God allows me to critize others in direct proportion to the amount of time i spend weeping on my face for their condition, interceding for their deliverance. i am just sounding cybal or a tinkling brass otherwise.obese christians

 2005/8/12 3:09Profile





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