| Re: |
Thank you all for your replies! I appreciate them! I've not been able to answer earkier but will write later today by God's grace.
| 2019/11/18 21:45||Profile|
| Re: Dear brother |
Been praying about this question and what the Lord keeps bringing me back to is the “refinement process”-
Not sure how familiar you are with the process by which silver is refined (made pure) but it makes for an interesting parallel to how the Lord handles His children:)
After carefully and attentively heating the silver so as not to scorch and burn it but bring it to the necessary place, a place (temperature) whereby the silver can be purified, it looks beautiful from the outside but the silversmith knows what lies underneath,... so he adds an alkali and immediately we see that which was hidden begin to appear- the dross! All the impurities which were lying underneath now become visible and float to the top drawn by the alkali so that the silversmith can scrape it off, after which he cools down the silver only to begin the whole process over and over again each time very patiently and attentively working the circumstances to his desired end. It can be a long process but He will know that the silver is pure when, finally He can see His reflection in it 😇
Many times in my walk with the Lord, He has brought me to a place of close fellowship only to then expose me to the “fires” which test the faith He deposited in me. After which He then adds the alkali,... a unforeseen circumstance (substance) which almost in magnetic fashion, draws from deep within me something gross, ugly and unholy. He then comforts me as He scrapes it away, or to put it another way... He convinces me to give up control over a situation and instead follow and obey Him. It’s painful, humiliating, uncomfortable and messy. It is also something we have to choose to cooperate with Him in, otherwise we will never be made truly what He wanted,...
Hope that helps🙏🏻
| 2019/11/19 9:39||Profile|
| Re: |
I wonder why no one finds these 2 verses contrasting.
1 John 1 -8 :- If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2 -1 :- 2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
How is it that if I say I have no sin then I am a liar and at the same time I am asked not to sin!
There is only 1 logical explanation.
In 1 John 1-8, John is talking about unconscious sins. Sins in us that we are not yet aware of. So even if we have a clear conscience before God based on what we know is sin, we still CANNOT say that we are without SIN. It is because we can only cleanse what we know is sin inside us. We cannot cleanse what we cannot see! But God can see everything plainly.
So as said in 1 John 1:9, when we confess the Sins that we are aware of committing, God is faithful to forgive ALL our sins. Which is both Conscious and unconscious sins. that is why it is important to have a clear conscience before God all the time by confessing anything that bothers our Conscience, else God will NOT cleanse all our sins and we WILL BE FOUND SINNERS.
In 1 John 2:1, John is saying we should not do any conscious sins.
As said before, when we keep cleansing our self, God will give more light in our life to see unconscious sins.
In my life, I have found light on so many sins in me that I was not aware of. Especially in my attitude towards things which I do, like my service towards God that I do. My attitude towards my wife in home, even though I have spoken no unholy word!
Brother Zac Poonen, tells that, the proof of God's love in his life is, God sheds light on sins that Zac is unaware of existing in him.
| 2019/11/19 10:50||Profile|
| Re: |
Thank you all for the input. I was about to fall sleep and was reminded of the forum :) so here we go.
Marvin, Fletcher, Oracio and Sreeram - you sum it up very well. I do not want to repeat what you said, but will just discuss few points.
1. Unconscious / unknown sin: yes, I mean exactly that. We all know that to steal, kill or commit adultery is a sin and we do not need special revelation to know that. And there is this general assumption that, whenever I sin the Holy Spirit immediately will show me where I have fallen and I have to repent, then the Lord can restore me.
And I do believe that HE DOES that, and everyone of us has experienced it. But somehow the thought comes into my mind that the Holy Spirit does not show us all our depravity and sins at once. So when we first repented, we could not list ALL of our sins. And even when we become mature, there are still areas in our life's that have to be changed by God. But it does not happen all at once, does it?
Not that we willfully walk in sin - NO, NO! - but just that we do not have the knowledge or revelation that "you are wretched, poor, blind and naked". And to what extent this process of refining or sanctification is going on in our soul depends on our personal relationship with the Lord. Because how will we see His light, if we do not want to hear His Word or have fellowship with Him...
2. Yes, perhaps David is not the best example for that. But could we find an example for that in the New Testament apart from 1 John?
Forced repentance because of condemnation and guilt does not lead to liberty, it just enslaves the Christian to sin-introspection taking their eyes off Jesus.
And constant introspection can make you miserable. Cause we cannot know ourselves fully by looking on the inside. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)
This was for tonight. Perhaps tommorow I will have more insight on the topic.
P.S. Bro Fletcher, your illustration helps a lot, thank you!
Yours in Christ,
| 2019/11/19 18:47||Profile|
| Re: ohh|
Please forgive me, how clumsy and presumptuous I must be :/
And what a blessing rests on your name! Just the thought of it inspires hope and confidence in Gods faithfulness:)))
Again I do apologize 🙏🏻
| 2019/11/20 6:00||Profile|
| Re: |
That's a little bit off topic but... brother Fletcher, I do not know what are you apologizing for 😁. I have not been offended anyway by whatever you think was inappropriate. Is it because I said "Thank you!"? I meant what I said :)
I do not understand the second part of your post either, but perhaps its better so. To God be the glory, great things He has done!
| 2019/11/20 16:35||Profile|
| Re: |
No ma’am, I had referred to you as “brother” in an earlier reply which after you signed your name (Esther) I realized I had been presumptuous but now we have it straight :)
| 2019/11/20 21:57||Profile|
| Re: |
Fletcher and Esther: Thanks for the kind remarks.
Repentance and sins and their purging from our lives are not the result of divine cookie-cutter workings. I know in my past, I thought that's really what God did. He trimmed off anything that didn't please him...or, I sought God to trim it out of a desire for holiness in my life.
I found out, cookie-cutter removals are not so common and the teachings I received that lead me to believe in such divine transformation was errant.
I found out Chastening as in Heb 12 was a divine reality, not an analogy. I found out difficulties and hardships were part and parcel a regular mode of bringing to the surface internal sins/attitudes/self-dependencies that stay well hidden in calmer days.
I found out interactions with others lead to a great deal of heating the silver with the addition of the alkali. Working with others you don't know, theologies that don't blend well in others minds, practices that suit you fine irritate others to no end. All of these help to 'expose' your sins.
The idea that you should be at "step 6" in your personal sanctification litmus test is so bogus it's best to discard it as soon as someone implies you need to check yourself to make sure your sanctification level is up to par.
It's important to understand those rebukes for blatant sins and obvious transgressions must be heeded, they must be taken seriously. But it's equally important to note, those ugly wart-sins which call for immediate removal...and should be removed, once they have been repented of and a genuine hatred towards them is worked in the heart have only just taken the first few baby steps in God's program to continually purge us from inward sins and equally grotesque wickedness that in our minds are wonderfully packaged in approved cultural character traits we applaud.
A simple analogy...The young man repents of having a 'strange' woman in his bed and so rejoices in the work of God. But God sees clearly that young man has many women still bedded in his heart that also must vacate his life.
Those women do not leave so easily. Those women are by his own weaknesses are invited back because he has not developed a hatred for those women too.
So too, attitudes and actions towards others and the pride he has in how he handles them, his quick put-downs, his arrogant judgmentalism, snide remarks are also a deep part of his old self...that self he hangs on to because the Christian-self is still very foreign to him.
This and a multitude of other analogies all depicting the inward conditions of my heart and others too are not subject to some immaturish sanctification plan others seek to attach to your Christian life.
It has been said many times by excellent men and women of God. Sanctification comes as a result of fellowshipping with other Christians and with continued habitual prayer and fellowship with God. The intentional practice of scripture applied in faith to every kind of circumstance through out the Christians life will not only work righteousness it will work death to the carnal mind.
New Christians are only slightly introduced to this by Sunday preaching, their real introduction to it is demonstrated by those who practice the life of faith.
| 2019/11/21 17:17||Profile|